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Old 07-05-2019, 08:49 PM
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Enfield trainer dilemma



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So, a few years ago, some old family friends were consolidating their urban household in order to move to their rural retirement house. My friend, weíll call her Louise, was uncomfortable having her brotherís firearms, that she inherited upon his passing. I inherited, among other things, a nice Enfield No 4 Mk1.

Right now, Iíd like to have an Enfield .22lr trainer. My understanding is that the SMLE is the preferred platform for conversion, but bear in mind I know NOTHING about these rifles and the nuances therein.

Hereís my question. Is the No 4 Mk 1 desirable enough to make a straight-across trade for a No 1 Mk II or No 1 Mk III so I might have the proper platform into which I can install one of the vintage Numrich kits?

Really, Iím throwing myself upon the mercy of the court, as it were. I have a LOT to learn, and Iím wondering if I can land on my feet on this deal. Any information/experience that you can lend me will be GREATLY appreciated.

My thanks, fellas.
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Old 07-06-2019, 05:46 AM
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One approach, the way I did it was to install the numrich tube in the no4 (it fits) and have a gunsmith asemble a no4 rimfire bolt. This works well and the conversion was easy. I did my own bolt work so the cost was minimal.

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Old 07-06-2019, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by thomasheim View Post
One approach, the way I did it was to install the numrich tube in the no4 (it fits) and have a gunsmith asemble a no4 rimfire bolt. This works well and the conversion was easy. I did my own bolt work so the cost was minimal.

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Was there any machine work necessary to get the bolt to work? I did a spot of research on converting the No 4, but the prevailing wisdom seemed to be that using a SMLE was easier.

Thanks!
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Old 07-06-2019, 08:29 AM
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Converting the bolt requires that the bolt head be annnealed, drilled and reamed to .312, press in a soft dowel and drill for the new firing pin. The firing pin is the same as the one for the no2 mk4 which is available from numrich. The extractor is also available from numrich. The original .303 firing pin is ground down. I started with this then made a copy of the numrich tube and installed one permanently in a no4 making a .22 no4. I think I may have pics of the conversion.

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Old 07-06-2019, 08:32 AM
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In the process of all the conversions I now have a numrich tube conversion with both a no1 mk3 bolt and a no4 bolt. Works either way.

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Old 07-06-2019, 08:53 AM
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Chuck, you described the Numrich kits as "vintage" and I hope you're not under the impression that they are any type of official military issue item. They're newly made commercial things. Accuracy seems to be hit and miss with these kits-mine was a miss. Just my opinion, but I think I'd sell the No.4 and get a proper No.2 trainer.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:01 AM
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Thanks for the input, guys. I drug the Enfield out of the safe and gave it a once-over. Sadly, the furniture has been sporterized, so suddenly much of its perceived value just evaporated. The bore looks awesome and the rest of the rifle is quite clean. Iím discovering that replacement furniture and metal is not going to be cheap, so itís back to the drawing board!
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Old 07-08-2019, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckbiscuits View Post
Right now, Iíd like to have an Enfield .22lr trainer. My understanding is that the SMLE is the preferred platform for conversion, but bear in mind I know NOTHING about these rifles and the nuances therein.

Hereís my question. Is the No 4 Mk 1 desirable enough to make a straight-across trade for a No 1 Mk II or No 1 Mk III so I might have the proper platform into which I can install one of the vintage Numrich kits?
you may not have the whole picture.

1. you need to find one that you want.
2. you need to find a person willing to trade you for what you have.


with regards to the conversion kits, you dont say if you have one. So if you dont, you will need to get one.

I have yet to see a conversion kit f/s. I think there was 1 recently and thats is the 1st one ive seen f/s since i became aware of them and thats been 20+ years now. They may have gone f/s under my radar so im not saying i keep track of every place and show, but if you want a conversion, you may have to look real hard or if someone was nice enough to offer theirs f/s to you.

So you may end up buying a complete rifle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckbiscuits View Post
Really, Iím throwing myself upon the mercy of the court, as it were. I have a LOT to learn, and Iím wondering if I can land on my feet on this deal. Any information/experience that you can lend me will be GREATLY appreciated.

My thanks, fellas.
Everyone starts at 0. I got my info from books and thats what i use. There is alot of stuff on the web, but you do have to take the 1st step and google/serach for things.

You will find some trainers f/s from time to time. Will you like the price? thats up to you and from what ive seen recently is that the prices have gone up.

the few times i took my No 2 Mk4? out it really impressed me on the accuracy since i was using the open sights. There is also a couple other trainers, like the No 8 and maybe a few others. I forget tho. Then depending on what you want or find out, you may find that Canada had some and Australia had some too. Will you want to look for any of those to grab or will you want anything?
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Old 07-08-2019, 02:37 PM
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I have one of the kits. Bought it from Numrich when they were listed years ago. I also have two trainers in my collection. The kits are okay. I had a no4 at one time and I thought the kit fit it. I do know the kit won't fit all no III's some have tight bores. I think my Lithgow has too tight of bore.
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:48 PM
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yes the no 4 is a good candidate , this is a doable project , but ive not seen many of the kits lately - admittedly not looking ,

the value of the 22s is much higher than a no 4 these days , but the 22s are available if you look and i recommend that to the kit , the Cno7 is a nice choice , based on the canadian no 4 longbranch , as is the no2 mk IV [thats an earlier version based on the no1 mk III & III* rifles ] both will please you , there are a lot of aussie no 2 mk IV s based on the lithgow no 1 mk III & mk III& rifles - some of these are so near new you would not realise they were made from vintage parts ,

i understand some will differ , do as you wish , but weigh all of the facts before you make the decision ,
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by n64atlas View Post
I have one of the kits. Bought it from Numrich when they were listed years ago. I also have two trainers in my collection. The kits are okay. I had a no4 at one time and I thought the kit fit it. I do know the kit won't fit all no III's some have tight bores. I think my Lithgow has too tight of bore.
The numrich kit for the no1 mk3 is no longer available. Bought mine 6 or 7 months ago and was just lucky I guess. There were 2 on GB but i didn.t check if they were still up for sale.

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Old 07-08-2019, 10:33 PM
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Yeah, I was watching those Numrich kits on GunBroker. Thatís what gave me the inspiration to tackle this project. When I saw what nice No4 Mk1s are bringing, my next plan was to sell the Enfield and buy a proper trainer. Then, of course, I discovered that my stock has been butchered. I ordered a copy of British .22RF Training Rifles which should be here soon. Iím not in any big hurry, but I want to get up to speed on what Iím looking for/at.

Thanks again for all the input and advice. It is much appreciated.
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:37 PM
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If you.re a machinest I have all the dimensions etc to make a conversion. In the no4 i permantly converted i used the numrich tube for a guide.

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Old 07-09-2019, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by chuckbiscuits View Post
Yeah, I was watching those Numrich kits on GunBroker. Thatís what gave me the inspiration to tackle this project. When I saw what nice No4 Mk1s are bringing, my next plan was to sell the Enfield and buy a proper trainer. Then, of course, I discovered that my stock has been butchered. I ordered a copy of British .22RF Training Rifles which should be here soon. Iím not in any big hurry, but I want to get up to speed on what Iím looking for/at.

Thanks again for all the input and advice. It is much appreciated.

This site is a good place to learn about all of the Enfield trainers: https://rifleman.org.uk/Enfield_Rifl...rison_page.htm


I currently own a No8 MKI (mfg 1949) and have owned a No2 MKIV (mfg 1932) in the past. Both rifles were manufactured as .22LR trainers, and not converted from .303. If you are looking for accuracy, a No8 is the way to go. They have a heavy target barrel, and are set up to accept bolt-on Match aperture sights. If you want to restore your sporter .303, Lee Enfield replacement furniture and unissued new old stock parts are available at reasonable cost from a number of sources.
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CZ_islandguy View Post
This site is a good place to learn about all of the Enfield trainers: https://rifleman.org.uk/Enfield_Rifl...rison_page.htm


I currently own a No8 MKI (mfg 1949) and have owned a No2 MKIV (mfg 1932) in the past. Both rifles were manufactured as .22LR trainers, and not converted from .303. If you are looking for accuracy, a No8 is the way to go. They have a heavy target barrel, and are set up to accept bolt-on Match aperture sights. If you want to restore your sporter .303, Lee Enfield replacement furniture and unissued new old stock parts are available at reasonable cost from a number of sources.
Do tell! My Google-fu let me down in finding affordable furniture/metal for my butchered Enfield.

And by that, I mean thank you!
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