Dovetail vs scope mounting holes - Page 2 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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  #16  
Old 05-04-2021, 10:39 AM
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+1 that
I do not want a cluttered mount; ie, less is more.
I have no troubles with the dovetail on any of mine, never have. They do not look like an afterthought. Good rings clamp tight.
D/T'ing an otherwise clean action to stick on scope blocks is something Ive avoided, though I have done it (yes, myself, on a mill). Im a bit OC so nobody would ever pay the per hour cost of my work. You want holes cheap? You take your chances....
Unless I actually needed an + or - moa for elevation adjustment I wouldnt use a rail.
Issues? Those ringsets with the correction inserts are the clean and effective way to go.
Ymmv
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  #17  
Old 05-04-2021, 10:58 AM
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Any mount attached by screws to a drilled and tapped receiver can come loose with bad results. With a grooved receiver you can always check the tightness of your mount as long as you have a nickel.
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  #18  
Old 05-04-2021, 11:24 AM
PABear
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Working with what we got, gcrank, I agree. rails on dovetail adds twice the number of screws......to be loose.
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  #19  
Old 05-04-2021, 02:36 PM
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I have to admit that Bscar rail is a nicely done piece and looks pretty good on the 457 , makes a difference when something is designed for a singular use .

rimfire dovetail rings have improved a lot from the economical tascos we topped off our old glenfieids .22s with , maybe the stigma remains , they were pretty pitiful.

for me nothings simpler or better looking than the Talleys 2 screw dovetail design rimfire rings or the 527 versions for that matter are a unique to the gun .
adequate clamping with out the ability to crush or leave marks on the scope tube . of course if your of the opinion that lapping rings is the only way to go you wont like these , its not needed or recommended with Tallys though .

to me the CZ's walnut and blue steel versions are classic styles and rails look out of place , plenty of Black and black matt guns for rails
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2021, 02:49 PM
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I won't change anyones mind who has already decided they don't like rails because of how they look or mount.

But I love them because they allow me to swap scopes around without having to remove them from their rings. It takes less then 30 sceconds.

That way I can have fewer but much higher quality scopes for the same money as having a bunch of lower end scopes.

I use DIP Rails, and from the photos you can see how subtle they are compared to most other brands.




And the DIP rails have a finish that is quite similar to a Blued finish. They have a shine to them.


Smooth

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 05-04-2021 at 02:55 PM.
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  #21  
Old 05-04-2021, 08:21 PM
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And just exactly what’s the basis for the assumption that bolting the scope down through relatively loose clearance holes is superior to using an inherently self aligning dovetail?

The best 22’s in the world have dovetail receivers and the best shooters in the world that use these rifles attach their sights to them.

Last edited by pdeal; 05-04-2021 at 08:24 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2021, 09:01 PM
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That is the beauty of having opinions and choices. Everyone has the right to an opinion and everyone has the ability to make a choice. You're welcome to do your own research and make your own choices. Then if you don't like your choices you make, you can also change your mind. Ain't it great.
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2021, 09:29 PM
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CZ Rings

As we have heard everyone has an "ArmPit" (insert noun here)
& they all Stink.

I have yet to see anyone on RFC Advocate OEM
CZ Mounts/Rings.

I Too have an ''Armpit''...skwerl
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2021, 10:07 PM
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My Experience - 11mm & 3/8" dovetails.

I have always used rings directly attached to the 11mm or 3/8 dovetail on my rimfires. A few of the older setups have Weaver (steel) rings, a few have Leupold rimfire (steel) 11mm setups, once I found the Warne rimfire rings . . . I now use them on every 11mm dovetail application. I like the 11mm or 3/8 mounting option on the Warne rings as I do occasionally move scopes around and have a few rimfires that have a 3/8's dovetail.

I have Bscar 25 MOA extended rails on a few 457's as I wanted to extend the height adjustment limitations of my scopes to shoot longer ranges. Lot's of options available for rails but I find the Bscar rails hard to beat for quality, price, fit, and finish. I like the design of four screws mounting into the top of the dovetail as well as the very snug fit of the rail to the dovetail. I also use Warne rings to mount on those rails using L M H sizes depending on the scope's objective size.

I do find hand-feeding single rounds easier on the 457's with the rails when shooting off the bench with Single Shot Adapters.
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  #25  
Old 05-05-2021, 10:47 AM
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Smoothtrigger- With good 11mm rings I can remove a scope and remount it and it will be on zero within 1/4moa. Not with Warne rings of course because you need to completely disassemble things to take the scope off but with clamp on rings.

Bottom line, I am an Anschutz/CZ fan boy. Personally I'm glad they dovetail the receivers. It's pretty much guaranteed that the dovetail on the action is straight with the bore as best as can be and it will stay that way. Not so with loose fitting clearance screw holes.

One thing I have noticed about 3/8" dovetails on various actions is that there is really no standard with them. The width of them varies all over the map. Not so with 11mm dovetails.
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  #26  
Old 05-05-2021, 01:59 PM
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned is eye relief. With my current dovetail rings and scope (Mueller) I have my front ring a the front edge of the mount and the rear ring above the most forward extent of the bolt handle. But in doing so this long scope is basically held by rings that are just on either side of the turrents. I could side the scope backwards a bit, but then I'd have to get some sort of cheek rest to elevate my eye.

A couple of the rail options are a bit longer than the upper's body, so they don't have this issue. Though maybe someone makes offset 11mm dovetail rings?
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  #27  
Old 05-05-2021, 03:18 PM
mpolk
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I have my opinion. You have yours. Let's just leave it at that.
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  #28  
Old 05-06-2021, 08:36 PM
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I have both, lots of them and both work.
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  #29  
Old 05-07-2021, 12:26 AM
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You pays your money and you takes your choice.

The standard rimfire dovetail mount got a bad rep when it was new, but that's because the rings available for it were, to be charitable, junk. I was there, BTW. The introduction of the standard US grooved receivers on rimfires coincided with the introduction of lightweight, affordable scopes. Before that (early 60s), a typical rimfire scope was as long as a boring afternoon and often cost more than the rifle, even a good one, it was mounted on. The big names were Unertl, Lyman, Lietschertz and Feckless, and they were about as common as Packard cars in the 1930s. They used 3/8" dovetail blocks mounted on the barrel, not the receiver, and had external adjustments. Next time you see a classic target .22 like a Winchester Model 52 or a Remington Model 37 with an original barrel, look for the pairs of double screw holes on the barrel. The grooved mounts used "tip-off" rings, typically made of stamped or pressed steel. The system was introduced as a quick, cheap way to mount a cheap scope, often 3/4 diameter, on an inexpensive .22.
That was then and this is now. Scope and ring manufacturers have recognized the cheap tip-off groove system is here to stay, and there's a plethora of excellent, well-made rings to fit them. Many have provision for also fitting the 11mm dovetails on European guns. Only a minority of current rimfire actions are factory drilled and tapped for separate ring mounts, and in my experience finding a gunsmith who knows how to do an accurate and proper job of drilling and tapping an undrilled receiver is a crap shoot. The separate bases look more robust and give perhaps a bit more flexibility, but they add weight and bulk, plus another set of screws to loosen up. As for the robustness, if I bang the scope on something, I'd rather buy a new set of rings than a new scope. There's something to be said for breakaway mounts. You pays your money and you takes your choice.
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  #30  
Old 05-07-2021, 11:06 AM
TEDDY BEAR RAT
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Yes, to each his own.

According to my admittedly pungent bunghole, any sporter with a dovetail milled into its receiver deserves the elegance and simplicity of having rings fitting that dovetail used for mounting a scope, and there is no shortage of outstanding rings available, ranging from inexpensive to top-drawer. As a minimalist who is highly aesthetics oriented, I see no need for adding extra parts, if simply mounting a scope is the objective. Now, the recent popularity of long-range rimfire shooting requiring 10 or 20 MOA sloped mounts is a another thing, and I understand that need...but that is a very specialized application for a unique situation, not a simple mounting of a scope.

Again, to each his own, but (get ready) I personally have absolutely no use for mounting Hubble-class telescopes on rimfire sporters using clunky, toothy aluminum Lego blocks. And, since I'm pontificating, I also abhor placing sleek sporter barreled actions into metal contraptions that resemble a severed Terminator's limb.

It seems the proliferation of large, massive scopes on rimfires is what has led to the many blocky, inelegant bases out there, when sleek, sporter scopes usually would not require anything but a nice ring mounted directly to the receiver.

It truly grieves my soul to see sleek, elegant rifles, the majority of the effort and cost of crafting of which involved enhancing aesthetics, being rendered into heavy, awkward-handling chisel plows.

How's that for a smelly bunghole

TBR
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