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Old 02-01-2021, 10:21 AM
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Good Day All

This post may get long.

Some of you may have noticed the new match listed under RFC Online Matches section, RFC Factory Benchrest. I am here asking about interest and how those wanting to shoot would prefer what rules would be.

I am chuck40219, and I am going to try to explain what and why I requested this new match. I have an interest in benchrest rimfire shooting. I do not have the skill to compete nor the financial means to do so in the ARA or the other established matches.

I have two Winchester 52D that are my pride and joy. But when ARA brought forth the ideal of a Factory Match, the 52s were not allowed. When the Bullet PRO 150 Match was brought out I looked into it, however I found that the only factory part required was the action.

Looking to see if there is sufficient interest in a factory benchrest match. This is where the owners of all makes can come together and shoot.

What I envision this match to be is:

Everyone starts out at 25 yds. then moves up to 50 yds. once they shoot a perfect target at 25 yds.
Any factory gun with a cost below $1000.00
Factory barrel
Factory stock
Factory trigger
Any type of action
Any 22LR ammo that is factory loaded
Any type of sights
Re-crowing of the barrel OK
No one piece rest
Bipod OK
No tuner
No barrel set backs
Glass and pillar bedded ?

This is all I can think of right now. I do have permission to use this target.

Suggested target:

chuck40219
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2021, 04:55 PM
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Thatís kind of where Iím at BUT!!...... I think modified factory barrels are ok with me as long as for example the barrel hasnít been shortened more than 1Ē for both recrown and rechambered.

Maybe two classes of factory???????

Iím also ok with tuners ďonlyĒ because barrel pressure pads effectively tune the barrel in its self.

As far as a factory class Iím all for it as I had similar issues since all my factory rifles have bull barrels It automatically puts you in the unlimited class.

I think there is already something similar her but not sure.


"The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand, we listen to reply"
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Old 02-01-2021, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by PEASHOOTER67 View Post
That’s kind of where I’m at BUT!!...... I think modified factory barrels are ok with me as long as for example the barrel hasn’t been shortened more than 1” for both recrown and rechambered.

Maybe two classes of factory???????

I’m also ok with tuners “only” because barrel pressure pads effectively tune the barrel in its self.

As far as a factory class I’m all for it as I had similar issues since all my factory rifles have bull barrels It automatically puts you in the unlimited class.

I think there is already something similar her but not sure.


"The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand, we listen to reply"
On the barrel issue, trying to get a even field for everyone, and about two classes means more record keeping for me.

If you don't have a lathe would you be able to rechamber?

Tuners, not everyone can afford a tuner.

Something here already, yes there is but not open to all makes in one match. I am aware of the match for cz's and I am sure there are matches for other makes. But where does a guy go for comparison of how his gun is doing to another make.

Chuck40219
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Old 02-01-2021, 07:39 PM
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Wow sounds great!!!!

Let me go look at my guns for a minute.

Sorry None of my guns qualify. My only stock gun is an Anschutz but it's DQ on price.

Great idea, but each rule cuts the field of entrants. Most of mine DQ on trigger springs and stocks. Or the only factory part is the 10/22 bolt, everything else is aftermarket.

Last edited by Southern1; 02-01-2021 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 02-01-2021, 08:06 PM
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Current production or do vintage guns meet the criteria of less than a thousand?

Nice place to dust off vintage target rifles if so. Where model 52’s, 37’s or Martinis may not be competitive in ARA unlimited class it would be fun to play with them.
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Old 02-02-2021, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by W8LON View Post
Current production or do vintage guns meet the criteria of less than a thousand?

Nice place to dust off vintage target rifles if so. Where model 52ís, 37ís or Martinis may not be competitive in ARA unlimited class it would be fun to play with them.
I think vintage guns are fine. Unless we get many objections to them.

chuck40219
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Old 02-02-2021, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Southern1 View Post
Wow sounds great!!!!

Let me go look at my guns for a minute.

Sorry None of my guns qualify. My only stock gun is an Anschutz but it's DQ on price.

Great idea, but each rule cuts the field of entrants. Most of mine DQ on trigger springs and stocks. Or the only factory part is the 10/22 bolt, everything else is aftermarket.
Don't have a problem with trigger springs, but do with complete trigger replacement.
If replacement stocks, barrels, bolts, triggers, and trigger guard screws are allowed then it is not much of a factory gun match.

Blue type: sarcasm

chuck40219
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Old 02-02-2021, 05:14 PM
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New Match

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck40219 View Post
Don't have a problem with trigger springs, but do with complete trigger replacement.
If replacement stocks, barrels, bolts, triggers, and trigger guard screws are allowed then it is not much of a factory gun match.

Blue type: sarcasm

chuck40219

This I agree. ^^^^^^^

Iím great with no tuners BUT what about if itís wearing a suppressor?
What Iím actually asking is if it has a threaded barrel and you put a suppressor or muzzle break.



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Old 02-02-2021, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PEASHOOTER67 View Post
This I agree. ^^^^^^^

Iím great with no tuners BUT what about if itís wearing a suppressor?
What Iím actually asking is if it has a threaded barrel and you put a suppressor or muzzle break.



"The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand, we listen to reply"
Have no problem with suppressors as long they are not being employed to act as a tuner. I really don't know if they would act as a tuner. I kinda understand how they work but can not know if they can be used as tuners.

Wish I had a suppressor, but not enough to go to the hassle to get one. One of my friends has several and I have put one of his on my gun and shot it. Neat but had to give it back to him when he left. Don't remember but, I think it was for the 5.56 or 308. I know he has one for 338 also but, I don't take that one out much.

Hope you will join in.

chuck40219
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  #10  
Old 02-03-2021, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck40219 View Post
Good Day All

This post may get long.

Some of you may have noticed the new match listed under RFC Online Matches section, RFC Factory Benchrest. I am here asking about interest and how those wanting to shoot would prefer what rules would be.

I am chuck40219, and I am going to try to explain what and why I requested this new match. I have an interest in benchrest rimfire shooting. I do not have the skill to compete nor the financial means to do so in the ARA or the other established matches.

I have two Winchester 52D that are my pride and joy. But when ARA brought forth the ideal of a Factory Match, the 52s were not allowed. When the Bullet PRO 150 Match was brought out I looked into it, however I found that the only factory part required was the action.

Looking to see if there is sufficient interest in a factory benchrest match. This is where the owners of all makes can come together and shoot.

What I envision this match to be is:

Everyone starts out at 25 yds. then moves up to 50 yds. once they shoot a perfect target at 25 yds.
Any factory gun with a cost below $1000.00
Factory barrel
Factory stock
Factory trigger
Any type of action
Any 22LR ammo that is factory loaded
Any type of sights
Re-crowing of the barrel OK
No one piece rest
Bipod OK
No tuner
No barrel set backs
Glass and pillar bedded ?

This is all I can think of right now. I do have permission to use this target.

Suggested target:

chuck40219
Chuck,

Is the $1000 limit based on original MSRP? or current market prices. and as for triggers will modified factory with no aftermarket parts( Kidd, Rifle basix, etc.) be allowed?
for example I can take the spring out from an old Marlin 25 trigger and replace it with one from a Bic lighter and get a really good trigger. same for a H&R M12 I just put a new pivot pin and I will get a 2-oz. trigger.

Lee
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  #11  
Old 02-03-2021, 08:21 AM
chuck40219 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
Chuck,

Is the $1000 limit based on original MSRP? or current market prices. and as for triggers will modified factory with no aftermarket parts( Kidd, Rifle basix, etc.) be allowed?
for example I can take the spring out from an old Marlin 25 trigger and replace it with one from a Bic lighter and get a really good trigger. same for a H&R M12 I just put a new pivot pin and I will get a 2-oz. trigger.

Lee
$1000 limit based on original MSRP as far as I am concerned. If we base it on current market prices, my CZ457 at-one ($600.00) could be over the $1000 limit with the crazy price gorging going on in a year.

No aftermarket triggers. Modified factory is ok.

chuck40219
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2021, 03:32 PM
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I am a bit confused, is your intention to hold this as an online match or actually try to start up some new "match" that is shot around at different clubs? Either way, I would build the rules around the concept of "cheaters are going to cheat". While it would be great to think that everyone is above board, I think we all know there are those out there who will not only push the limits, but they will make every attempt to try to get by with something if you were to go with a true Factory only concept.

I would make the rules such that it actually gives the honest guy a somewhat level playing field. For me that would mean:

Any factory gun with a cost below $XXXXX or vintage rifles older than 'X' number of years (This would be to allow 40x's, 52's, etc)
Factory barrel, recrown ok, no rechambering
Factory stock, bedding ok, no other modifications
Any Trigger (who would actually check these even if one did say factory triggers only)
No Tuner
No forend attachments other than bipod.
36x Scope Limit
Two-Piece Rests or Bipods only
22lr Ammo with max cost of $11 (this would cover CenterX, etc).

Just stick to 50 yards.

The goal of these factory classes would seem to be to keep cost down and to let people use some of the older vintage rifles they already have. What we are seeing even in ARA factory class is guys are using $15-$20 box ammo and $2000 scopes. That kind of defeats the purpose in my view.

Limiting the scope and ammo costs would help some. In the end I wouldn't want to have to inspect rifles and allowing some things that most people already do would prevent hard feelings.

If this is really an online match, forget all of the rules and just have people post what they used and save yourself the headache.

Just my two cents.
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2021, 08:17 PM
FredJ_2008
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Keep it Simple

One run rule, put a claiming amount on the winning rifle at $500, less scope and have at it. Cheaters disappear after their first win and refuse the Buyout.
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  #14  
Old 02-04-2021, 06:23 PM
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Bad ideal

I have come to the conclusion that this is just a bad ideal.

Chuck40219
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  #15  
Old 02-04-2021, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck40219 View Post
I have come to the conclusion that this is just a bad ideal.

Chuck40219
How do you think match directors feel with the factory rifle rule. I’m sure it’s a headache for the ARA. People want to shoot but the fine line of what constitutes a target rifle from what is currently produced is tricky. Having several old rifles that I thought of shooting in matches they fall under the Unlimited rule do to a target rifle of their time. All in good fun anyways with online matches, just shoot the target and score it. Honest scoring of worst edge is best left to the computer scan.
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