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No more cash?

4K views 83 replies 43 participants last post by  comfisherman 
#1 ·
A few days ago, I discovered a place that absolutely would not take cash green money, only credit cards. Took my wife to the Yuma AZ airport to catch a flight out, went to exit the parking lot, machine that controlled the exit gate would only take credit cards, no cash at all. If you dont have a credit card, you aint gettin' out of that parking lot. First time I have encountered something like this. :eek:

So, the City of Yuma had to pay Visa $3.00 to process my $1.00 fee to get out of the parking lot ?
 
#2 · (Edited)
Things have been trending that way for some time now. It will absolutely be a cashless society at some point.

It will not be long. Many people already do all their banking, bill paying, shopping, etc. on-line. I still write out checks the old fashioned way for most of my bills, but have a few things on auto pay with electronic transfer of funds. I may add utility bills, and cable/TV/ computer bills that are monthly bills. I have been reluctant to do so because I wonder what will happen should there be a problem with the technology and a bill doesn't get paid, or worse, one of those computers accidentally overcharges and drains my checking account. All my other bills wouldn't get paid.

Having said that, I always have some cash on me. I use it for small purchases at coffee shops, etc. Also, that's all they take at the social clubs to which I belong.

It won't be long before there are eye scanners or facial recognition technology attached to your bank accounts that will be installed at the markets and retailers of all kinds.



R
 
#4 ·
It won't be long before there are eye scanners or facial recognition technology attached to your bank accounts that will be installed at the markets and retailers of all kinds.

R
That bothers me quite a bit. When Kroger started doing their Kroger card for discounts (marking the price way up and then using a card to get a discount that still leaves the item more expensive than other stores is not really a discount) they immediately started tracking whatever you buy. Other places will be able to do likewise but your banking records are ripe for the picking by unscrupulous people, whether it be the banks themselves selling data or the govt looking into your life.

I'm currently home after a surgery. Won't be mobile for awhile. I've already sent my daughter out with my debit card to fill up my wife's car with gas. Will likely send her to the store some until I can get mobile again. If such eye scan technology were in use it would make that impossible.

The big tech companies can collect mind boggling amounts of data on us already. Allowing more data to be acquired is Orwellian. All sorts of ways for this stuff to be abused.
 
#5 ·
So, the City of Yuma had to pay Visa $3.00 to process my $1.00 fee to get out of the parking lot ?
More likely either a fixed cost contract or a percentage of sales deal.

Things have been trending that way for some time now. It will absolutely be a cashless society at some point.
I am just about there. I use card almost everywhere I can. I use cash or check at small businesses just so they get that extra percentage in their pockets. Yeah, I know I'm giving up "points" on the card but I figure I might as well let the entrepreneur get the bank's cut.

All my recurring payments are made via direct debit from my bank or setup to charge to the card. Direct debit is more convenient as the card info has to be updated every time a new card is issued.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I've had the same $50 in my wallet for at least a year, I don't use cash for anything. With a no-fee debit card I use it everywhere for everything. Works the same for a $4 McDs lunch or $100 at the grocery store.

I'm an old guy without a smart phone so can't do any of the newer stuff but yes, I can see money going away at some point.

The only time I've used cash in the last year or so was when I took a taxi to the airport.

And BTW, my bank account is "free checking" but I haven't had any checks since I destroyed the last ones over a decade ago.

Edit: and slightly off topic but I moved here to NM (from Ohio) five years ago and never opened any bank account out here. With a debit card it doesn't matter where your money is, as long as they know where you live (so they don't flag your purchases) you can keep your old accounts. I've been a member of my CU for over 30 years.
I check my account online and that's faster and easier than calling on the phone the old way.

Another couple of points...it costs us a lot for the government to print our money.
Who would be affected the most if the US stopped printing money?? Illegal drug dealers, arms merchants, etc.
 
#12 ·
Who would be affected the most if the US stopped printing money?? Illegal drug dealers, arms merchants, etc.
Poor people.
I check my account online and that's faster and easier than calling on the phone the old way.
Until something happens that you have to show up in person for.
 
#23 ·
Until something happens that you have to show up in person for.
I doubt anyone cares but I've never had to physically show up in 5 years.
We email papers when needed.
This summer I got a loan; the money was in my account immediately and I had to print and sign some papers before I mailed them.

My local insurance agent emails me policy changes with some kind of online signature software, I don't have to go into his office either.
 
#10 ·
I find it sort of funny that this subject came up on this forum. I am, like most of the above posts, doing electronic banking for the majority of my banking. However, I just went to a gun show this morning and I'll confirm that in my area of the country that a gun show is a "cash" business, and I don't see it changing in the near future.

Regarding the gun show, I didn't come home with anything, but did see two Stevens target rifles that I would have loved to bring home, but they were way above what I could afford.
 
#11 ·
Lots of gun shops still do cash discount or cash only. It's getting harder and harder to use nowadays. Try buying something in the classifieds without paypal.... vehemently anti gun company that explicitly states no gun parts, but list something for sale and the first question will be "do you take paypal".
 
#13 ·
I hope cash never goes away. The government should put some teeth in "this note is legal tender for all debts public and private".

A also can understand why a business likes credit and debit cards. No money run to the bank. If your employee gets hurt or killed making the deposit, I'm thinking there is liability for the employer.

Since we are gun enthusiasts and mindful of those that would like to take our firearms away, keeping others out of the financial loop is a good argument for cash. I wonder how much of our electronic transaction info is sold?

I keep a fair stash of cash in my wallet. It is for emergencies. The last time was for a tow truck driver that was cash only. Having cash when the power is out at a big box store doesn't do much good, they have no way to take it and won't. Small stores with the owner in place are likely more flexible.
 
#14 ·
Use my USAA CC for most every purchase: cash back that pretty much pays for my auto insurance. Most everything (Amazon, Subway, Burger-Thing, Mikkie-Dees, gas, and autopay for my AT&T wireless - including DirecTV, and Verizon home phone is paid with it). And I pay the bill on-line.

This month, had two major expenses ($14K for a LOT of tree removal, and $2K+ for a significant chimney repair). All on the USAA CC. Will pay it off in full when the bill comes as we have been saving up for this for over a year. Could have written checks, but paying with a CC is easy, saves me postage, and gets me cash back. And it is convenient. If Uncle Sam is interested in my payment to an arborist, he is welcome to come out and pick up the wood chips...

I haven't made any purchases with a CC that I'm concerned about. Last time I went to an ATM was eight months ago. Then again "I don't get out much".

There are really only two things a month that requires me to go on-line and pay electronically through the bank: my USAA CC and the electric bill. I pay those bills in my bathrobe. I could include the electric bill as an automatic payment through the CC, but they charge a 3% surcharge for that. On-line payment through Wells Fargo combined with paying off the USAA CC is a once-a-month on-line "chore". Easy.

Checks are for our farrier once a month, and tax payments.
 
#16 ·
The government should put some teeth in "this note is legal tender for all debts public and private".
They actually have done so, unless the business posts up front that cash is not accepted (as have done a few California businesses).

If the business won't accept cash, call the police and explain that you are trying to pay but they won't take your payment. In our area the police tell them they are then giving the items to the purchaser for free.

In JN's case, he might have had a claim for "false imprisonment", but the time, money, and hassle isn't worth it.
 
#17 ·
CC or Debit?
Debit cards do not have the same 'protections' as CCs, you can get burned big time by DCs and not have recourse to any recovery.
I suggest having a CC for online purchases that is in NO WAY connected to your bank or CU account. Just a card that you use only for that and pay off when the bill comes.
 
#25 ·
CC or Debit?
Debit cards do not have the same 'protections' as CCs, you can get burned big time by DCs and not have recourse to any recovery.
I recently set up a savings account at my bank with enough in it for the down payment on a house I'll be buying soon.

When the guy at the bank went over details with me, he told me that the new account was now tied to my debit card. I told him nooooo, please disassociate the new account from my DC (used for my other low $ accounts).

That's all I'd need; someone to use a skimmer on my DC and siphon off my house. :eek: Soon as the account was set up, I went to the ATM and verified that the card couldn't access it.

I suggest having a CC for online purchases that is in NO WAY connected to your bank or CU account. Just a card that you use only for that and pay off when the bill comes.
That's the only way to go, IMO. I use a CC from another bank, even though my main bank offers perks for using theirs.
 
#20 ·
All of these modern conveniences are nice but they do come with a price. Any hope of privacy is gone. We don't carry a lot of cash with us, and many monthly expenses are set up on auto pay at our bank.

We got into the same sort of deal as Mr. York last week exiting the parking deck at UAB hospital, cards only automated exit. Irritating, but you've got no choice but to adapt. We were darned near being stuck there with no way out late at night with no help available. No money left in the bank, and I was just about to panic when the wife remembered a credit card with a little available on it. Would have been on the news. Man breaks toll bar to escape parking lot. :eek:
 
#21 ·
i think our local airport has done the same thing, but its been several years since that happened.

They do have 1 or 2 staffed gates for people with cash. The rest are not staffed.

I worked for an automation company years ago and 1 conceptual project was to put RFID chips on antennas. The customer wanted this assemblies really really really really cheap since they would be put on everything from candy bars to boxes of cereal. But the idea was to put RFIDs on everything so they could more or less do away with a cashier. this is a well known convenience store that was looking into this 10+ years ago.

They also wanted to use it for inventory purposes where you can just hit a button on a scanner in a warehouse and have instantanious feedback of whats on the shelf and how many.

Its only a matter of time before we go to a cashless societies.

for what its worth when i bought my used chevy from a rental agency in burbank, CA, in 2004, they would not accept cash - period. When i asked about this when handing my bank draft, they said that due to the many many many many robberies, all of the used car dealerships were going cashless. Made sense to me.

But those people that cant wait for a cashless societies will learn the hard way of the Golden Rule. I always mention that , but they always come back to say it wont happen, there are backups and so forth.

the convenience are nice, but when it comes down to it, is who controls it and who's watching over those that control it and so forth.

i also notice banks are really quick to take your money, but are really really slow to make those corrections.
 
#22 ·
My wife and I use the credit union debit card for at least 90% of our purchases. We still use checks to pay for things like utility bills. I can tell you that the banks make a lot of money on credit card fee's. When I was a store manager for Sheetz Inc my quarterly credit card fee's were around $45000 per quarter. I retired nine years ago so I imagine they are much higher since credit and debit cards are even more popular.
 
#28 ·
Yes, I doubt most people under 40 have ever even seen a $2 bill let alone have one to try and pass as cash. I have a couple my grandparents got for me along with some silver dollars from Reno. Nobody even uses those to gamble anymore. All electronic. Takes your money that much faster without the real jingle of coins. Not the same experience...… We are heading for a cashless society where everything we do with our money can be tracked. rc
 
#29 ·
My major in college was Economics. This does not make me a guru by any means but I DO know a little of what I speak.

1. Right in the Constitution it clearly states that the only thing that constitutes legal money in the United States is gold and silver.

Article I, section 10 reads "No state shall...coin money, emit bills of credit, make any thing but gold and silver a tender in payment of debts..."

2. EVERY note of US currency states: "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private."

If they demand anything other than legal currency you can REFUSE payment. If they take you to court for non payment THEY WILL LOSE because you are NOT refusing to pay your debt. Rather it it THEY that have the problem.

Check it out. You'll see I'm right.
 
#38 ·
I wish to clarify:

If you walk into a store and wish to make a purchase, they CAN tell you "cards only". This is because THEY, at this point, own whatever it is you wish to buy and they CAN set the terms. However on the other hand, if you ALREADY ARE the debtor and your creditor refuses cash or check the judge will kick their butts out of the court room.
 
#30 ·
I apparently was under the impression that "This Note is Legal Tender for All Debts, Public and Private" meant that cash always had to be accepted. That's why the self checkout machines still have a cash transaction option. I didn't know that a business could deny taking cash. Here in Texas I don't think I have ever seen a place that would not take cash.
 
#32 ·
Vee3

We did the same thing a couple years back, and set up an account with no cards set up at all to it. Every time we move money around with it the banker tries to get us to activate cards related to it so we don't need two forms of id. The account is used for our fishing account, doesn't get a lot of action but when it does it's 6 figure checks, that represent the income of 4 guys. Have to mitigate any opportunity for security.

The big issue for me is how to transfer funds long distance while still supporting the 2nd amendment. So many methods we currently use are already absolutely against private gun ownership. The closest we have now is a postal money order, but it's not 100% fool proof and a lot of folks don't like to mess with them.
 
#33 ·
The law & case decisions of cash...

For your consideration I offer the below two cut & paste from the internet. Simple Google search. The statement that a merchant must accept cash is incorrect. I am also aware of this from a law suit brought by a classmate of mine from Northeastern University School of Law against the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Secretary of State, who had instituted a policy of non-acceptance of cash at his office. As a public entity, he was obligated to accept cash however if he was a private entity he could set his own policy. That was the Court's ruling.

Legal Tender Status:
I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

From Wikipedia:
Legal tender is a medium of payment recognized by a legal system to be valid for meeting a financial obligation.[1] Each jurisdiction determines what is legal tender, but essentially it is anything which when offered ("tendered") in payment of a debt extinguishes the debt. There is no obligation on the creditor to accept the tendered payment, but the debt is nevertheless discharged. The creditor is not obligated to give change. Some jurisdictions allow contract law to overrule the status of legal tender, allowing for example merchants to specify that they will not accept cash payments.[2] Coins and banknotes are usually defined as legal tender in many countries, but personal cheques, credit cards, and similar non-cash methods of payment are usually not. Some jurisdictions may include a specific foreign currency as legal tender, at times as its exclusive legal tender or concurrently with its domestic currency. Some jurisdictions may forbid or restrict payment made by other than legal tender.[citation needed]
In some jurisdictions legal tender can be refused as payment if no debt exists prior to the time of payment (where the obligation to pay may arise at the same time as the offer of payment). For example, vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote. Shopkeepers may reject large banknotes: this is covered by the legal concept known as invitation to treat.[clarification needed]
The right, in many jurisdictions, of a trader to refuse to do business with any person means that a would-be purchaser may not force a purchase merely by presenting legal tender, as legal tender only must be accepted for debts already incurred.
Under U.S. federal law, cash in U.S. dollars is a valid and legal offer of payment for antecedent debts when tendered to a creditor. By contrast, federal statutes do not require a seller to accept federal currency or coins as payment for goods or services simultaneously exchanged. Therefore, private businesses may formulate their own policies on whether to accept cash unless state law requires otherwise.[3][4]
 
#37 ·
The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender,"

There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise.[3][4]
Hope you don't mind my condensing into 'in a nut shell' David.
 
#34 ·
I have a bank account in Germany that I mostly use for my business. I can log into my German account from my computer in the office and have a registered device generate a seven digit TAN number for each transaction. The money is immediately transferred and credited to any other account in the Euro zone. Transfers are not only fast but free.

In German stores many people use their bank issued account cards that are linked to their accounts, again free of charge, for purchases. They have introduced "contactless" payments, were you do not have to insert of swipe your card, payment can be made by holding your cell phone, debit or credit card over the terminal via Near Field Communication. I don't think that I am ready for contactless payments, yet.

http://www.nfcnearfieldcommunication.org/wallets.html
 
#41 ·
We're doing the same thing in the security industry only using blue tooth technology. Instead of holding an access card up to a card reader, you can wave your phone or even keep it in your pocket. As you approach the door it unlocks if you're allowed access. The industry wanted to go to near field tech, but Apple wouldn't put it in their phones. Since most people carry an iPhone, the tech had to go Bluetooth, for now. Apple controls a lot of stuff.
 
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