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Old 03-12-2020, 07:10 AM
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Does all the lube spin out of hp ammo?



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Or does the 'down force' of launch retain the lube within and aid expansion upon impact of critters? Al wondered to himself.
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Old 03-12-2020, 08:13 AM
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Does all the lube spin out of hp ammo?

Al

I can tell you with .22lr ammo as kids , I and my cousins tried all sorts of stuff with our hollow points clearing ground squirrels and or prairie dogs from our grazing pastures.

I can tell you that yellow jackets of the 70ís we would hollow out the hollow point put wax in modified and non modified hollow points.

The ones with wax filled points always out performed the ones with out wax on its explosive effect.


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Old 03-12-2020, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PEASHOOTER67 View Post
Al

I can tell you with .22lr ammo as kids , I and my cousins tried all sorts of stuff with our hollow points clearing ground squirrels and or prairie dogs from our grazing pastures.

I can tell you that yellow jackets of the 70ís we would hollow out the hollow point put wax in modified and non modified hollow points.

The ones with wax filled points always out performed the ones with out wax on its explosive effect.
Thats what I pretty much thought but read otherwise elsewhere thus a thread starter inspiration.
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Old 03-12-2020, 06:27 PM
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It all spins out in the barrel, except for a coating.

Pre-filled hollow points expand better. Hence the modern self defense ammo.
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Old 03-12-2020, 06:30 PM
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Or does the 'down force' of launch retain the lube within and aid expansion upon impact of critters? Al wondered to himself.
Truly one of life's great mysteries.
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Old 03-13-2020, 01:22 AM
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So...this thread started with bullet lube which varies greatly in viscosity and went from bullet lube to wax a kid put in his hollow points and that's it, all done, question answered?
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Old 03-13-2020, 01:27 AM
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Probably, Maybe.
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Old 03-13-2020, 08:50 AM
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So...this thread started with bullet lube which varies greatly in viscosity and went from bullet lube to wax a kid put in his hollow points and that's it, all done, question answered?
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Originally Posted by sicumj View Post
Probably, Maybe.
I know, right?

Maybe Varmint Al knows.
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Old 03-13-2020, 09:35 AM
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The question of lube retention at the outside of the bullet body has come up in the cast bullet circles Ive run in. For me and my peers we are mostly running comparable velos with various CF calibers to 22LR. We use various lubes, from soft to hard. The answer for us appears to be answered by targets shot with soft lubed bullets, which one would expect to be the first to expel their lube, by the obvious deposits of lube at the outer edge of the bullet holes.
We have never looked at lube retention within a hollow point cavity.

Last edited by gcrank1; 03-13-2020 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 03-13-2020, 10:25 AM
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Wouldn't the pressure and temperature of detonation vaporize most of the lube? I would think so but have no empirical evidence one way or the other
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:16 AM
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Al, It is good you bring up this thread questioning whether lube stays in a hollow point or not. I felt and made a statement in another thread that the lube in RWS high velocity hollow points would not stay in its cavity. Do I have absolute proof of this? No. And rightly, I probably should..thanks.

I wanted to give my thoughts on down force or "G's" Gravitates force in multiples of what the lube normally feels at rest.

That soft lube would see compression and the only place for this compressed lube to go is out the tip. Would not the spin force @ 56,835 RPM by the time a RWS HVHP nears the muzzle along with the compression send it out of the cavity?

Rightly so "Maybe" not?

Al, good of you to point out...guess I'd need to recover some RWS HVHP's to better answer that question.

I do need to stay in line and only present highly factual proof of what I post here on RFC. I really truly do desire to do just that.
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by GladesGuy View Post
Wouldn't the pressure and temperature of detonation vaporize most of the lube? I would think so but have no empirical evidence one way or the other
I believe you brought up a good point relating to temperature. Lets say we are shooting a semi-auto that has seen some rapid fire on a hot summer day. With the ammo at a good 80's temp to begin with. Where's that lube ending up that is in the hollow point cavity? Staying or going? Maybe there's some good way to find out thru reality? Recovering bullets that are undamaged after being fired and seeing if most of the cavity lube is missing?
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:54 AM
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That's a tough call without hard proof. An initial observation is that from brand to brand there is a wide variety of HP diameters and depths. Some are filled, but mostly there seems to be little effort to plug the hole, and what lube I see in the HP seems to be by chance. Does it matter? To anyone, manufacturer or shooter?

This is strictly my supposition, but I think that the heat generated in the barrel and in flight, combined with centrifugal force, would shed most of the exterior lube.

I think that the incidental lube contained in the point would pretty much stay in place. We're talking about a 1mm hole with and a low density medium, so there's a v low moment of inertia generated by even a high rpm, plus you have the force of the air in front of the bullet that should inhibit expulsion.
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GladesGuy View Post
Wouldn't the pressure and temperature of detonation vaporize most of the lube? I would think so but have no empirical evidence one way or the other <img src="https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" class="inlineimg" /><img src="https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" class="inlineimg" /><img src="https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" class="inlineimg" />
I believe you brought up a good point relating to temperature. Lets say we are shooting a semi-auto that has seen some rapid fire on a hot summer day. With the ammo at a good 80's temp to begin with. Where's that lube ending up that is in the hollow point cavity? Staying or going? Maybe there's some good way to find out thru reality? Recovering bullets that are undamaged after being fired and seeing if most of the cavity lube is missing?
A good place to start is what kind of wax or lube is being used. Than we can find at what temp it melts. I think beeswax has come up before on maybe Eley ammo.

Once we find melting point, than we can find out if normal shooting is actually melting it or is it in a transitional space between solid and liquid...Im guessing that with normal shooting, we are not losing much.

If one looks at grease as an example. The oil is retained within the wax. Once pressure, not heat is applied. The oil releases from the wax.

Food for thought.
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Old 03-13-2020, 01:05 PM
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I submit that the soft lead bullet is in the bore for too short a time for any high temperature effect anywhere else but perhaps at the very base.
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