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Old 12-02-2019, 06:05 PM
REA

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Are any .22 ammo companies improving ammo?



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It will probably take time, but with all of the interest in long range and elr shooting, companies will hopefully start upgrading ammo. Better designed bullets would be a good place to start.


Anyone have any current information on this?
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Old 12-02-2019, 06:37 PM
1813benny
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Upgrades...

IMHO, it is doubtful that there will be any significant upgrades to the .22 LR for the foreseeable future. The cartridge was originally designed for black powder as a gallery round, so the overall configuration is limited for additional advancements.

The last significant upgrade was from Eley with the EPS bullet shape and that has been what, a decade ago? Prior to that was the dimpled case from the Russians with the Olymp ammunition (later copied by Federal for the UltraMatch line of UM1 and UM2).

As a competitive shooter for over 38 years, there has been much more advancement via external methods such as adjustable barrel tuners, optics, ammo-specific chambers, etc than in the actual ammunition. Most likely the greatest advancement in the last few years has been the accessibility to test centers to match rifles to ammunition with minimum external influences. (With that said, many smallbore prone records date back to the early 1970's, so that is just another factor to consider on old vs new primer content, etc.)

The cost of R&D to eek out even another 1% accuracy is just not worth it to the manufacturers when they look at the duration of the ROI. The match ammunition market is still extremely small even if you combine ISU events along with benchrest, PSL, ELR and conventional (prone & position) worldwide.

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ken
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:10 PM
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Yes... The profit on it.

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Old 12-02-2019, 10:44 PM
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With billions being made and sold everyday, what's the incentive?
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REA View Post
It will probably take time, but with all of the interest in long range and elr shooting, companies will hopefully start upgrading ammo. Better designed bullets would be a good place to start.


Anyone have any current information on this?
There is an axiom in 22LR shooting. "You want better accuracy? Then buy better ammo and lot test." There was an article about Eley ammunition a while ago where they had identified about 1000 things that can affect accuracy.

Besides, I competed for 10 years in long range silhouette matches from 65 to 200 meters. Current ammo is quite good enough. The biggest problem is the equipment, the shooter and the wind, not the ammo.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:55 PM
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MK, gotta disagree.

Wait for it....



The biggest problem is the small size of what we're aiming at..
Just need to use bigger targets.

Last edited by jaia; 12-03-2019 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MKnarr View Post
There is an axiom in 22LR shooting. "You want better accuracy? Then buy better ammo and lot test." There was an article about Eley ammunition a while ago where they had identified about 1000 things that can affect accuracy.

Besides, I competed for 10 years in long range silhouette matches from 65 to 200 meters. Current ammo is quite good enough. The biggest problem is the equipment, the shooter and the wind, not the ammo.
+1. I agree assuming I'm using even entry level match ammo (SK+, Eley Club, etc, etc. or better)... Lots of variables, no matter how loud the drum is beaten to make it a simplistic ammo issue.

Inexpensive ammo has it's place & usage, just like a humble hotdog or burger. I wouldn't order one at a nice restaurant, but when I'm in a rush at a drive-thru I will. Use what fits your needs, have fun & give thanks for the day.
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:57 PM
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improving ammo?

Will all the talk about velocity spreads, having to keep testing lots, different bullet sizes and such, it looks like it could be made more consistant.
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:56 PM
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Will all the talk about velocity spreads, having to keep testing lots, different bullet sizes and such, it looks like it could be made more consistant.
Of course it could but at what cost ? and are you willing to pay for that cost? When I still see Remington and Winchester selling crap 22lr by the bucket full, I realize that many or most aren't interested in increased 22lr quality.
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:57 PM
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SK Ammunition, manufacturers of high-quality .22 LR cartridges for nearly 190 consecutive years, announce our latest offering: “SK Long Range Match.” New for 2019, Long Range Match was developed for demanding .22 LR enthusiasts routinely acquiring targets out to 100 yards and beyond. It is purpose-built for today’s long range rimfire shooting disciplines ever-increasing in popularity, such as PRC, tactical rimfire, long range silhouette and more.

Anyone tried this?
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:12 PM
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Ya' think...

And where do ya' imagine the results are?

50 at 200 anyone?

Last edited by jaia; 12-03-2019 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:34 PM
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Red face Should have known - jaia!

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Ya' think...

And where do ya' imagine the results are?

50 at 200 anyone?
My bad! Headed to 50 at 200.
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:50 PM
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Probably more than 95 % of all .22 rimfire shooters are only interested in the ammo going "bang" and an accuracy potential of minute-of-popcan. In the great scheme of things, there are very, very few shooters interested in anything like what we here on this board would call "accuracy".

Almost every one of this miniscule number of shooters buys European ammo, and the American ammo manufacturers are happy to let them.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:51 AM
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Various colored finishes that cost more and shoot the same.....New names and boxes for the same old .22 that make it seem more impressive.....
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Old 12-04-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jnyork View Post
Probably more than 95 % of all .22 rimfire shooters are only interested in the ammo going "bang" and an accuracy potential of minute-of-popcan. In the great scheme of things, there are very, very few shooters interested in anything like what we here on this board would call "accuracy".



Almost every one of this miniscule number of shooters buys European ammo, and the American ammo manufacturers are happy to let them.

Minute of pop can is less acceptable these days. Rimfire precision is all the rage, both ammo companies and rifle manufacturers are taking notice and making changes. Eley’s made strides to reach more of a market share by offering more lines. As they do, their premium ammo could become more affordable due to overall increase in volume. In that regard, SK/Lapua set the standard.

Looking at the rifle market. In the last couple of years we’ve had new precision .22 rifles from Vudoo, Bergara, and Tikka. Tried and true manufacturers Ruger and CZ are working hard to stay in the precision .22 market.

Bottom line, the people buying these rifles aren’t going to be satisfied with .22 ammo from Remington, Winchester, federal or “gasp” CCI. I think there’s room in the market for improvement at all levels. Of note, .22 ammo was pretty accurate back in the day. And by that I mean guys competing in the 20’s-30’s. From what I read, in an effort to make ammo less “greasy” US manufacturers switched lube and that resulted in a drop in accuracy. I’ll try to dig up a reference tonight. In the 70’s-80’s federal made the original gold medal match. And it was great ammo. I understand it was EXPENSIVE for them to make, but given the change in numbers wanting precision .22 ammo, US ammo manufacturers may take notice and make some changes. These are good times for .22 shooters.


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