Keeper or Seller? Anschütz vs. Browning 17 HMRs (long post) - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-23-2017, 06:47 PM
dbuffington

Join Date: 
Jan 2004
Posts: 
2,319
TPC Rating: 
100% (9)
Keeper or Seller? Anschütz vs. Browning 17 HMRs (long post)



Log in to see fewer ads


Hi Folks!

As some of you know, I’m a gun “renter.” That is, I buy a gun, try it for awhile, and if I like it, I keep it. If I don’t like it, I sell it. I count any loss on the sale as a rental fee.

Or two fees.

Because, in this trial, I rented two guns, both chambered in 17 HMR. First, I found a like-new-but-used Anschütz 1517 MPR tagged with an exceptionally low price. A few weeks later, I ordered a Browning T-Bolt with two special features – a laminate stock and a threaded barrel.

I’ve been shooting them side-by-side for a couple of weeks, and now, the question is … which is a keeper and which is a seller?

ACCURACY

How do they shoot? Just fine. Here are some representative groups …



For the record, all the groups shown here were shot at the same time under the same conditions using a Cowan front rest and Protektor rear bag. Both guns were rigged with Leupold scopes set at 9x. The targets were set at 51 yards (don’t ask), and two loads were used in both – Hornady 17 grain V-Max and CCI 17 grain TNT. The Browning is intended to be used with a suppressor, and all my testing was done with a YHM suppressor attached.

Having said all of that …The Browning T-Bolt shot the smallest group (0.154 inches, 0.288 MOA). So is it it the most accurate/consistent?

No.

Why?

Because groups lie.

Groups don’t tell you the machinations that went into their making. With the Browning, that meant holding the magazine to make sure the CCIs fed properly. (We’ll get to that later.) It meant waiting at least a minute between shots to let the barrel cool, and it meant very carefully positioning my finger pad on the fixed trigger to cope with the very heavy trigger. (We’ll get to that later.) All of this of would be difficult to do under normal shooting pressure.

The Anschütz 1517 – which features the company’s basic “64 action” – required none of that. It just kept putting the pills downrange in sub-1-MOA groups.

Accuracy rating: 1517 - strong keep, T-Bolt - keep.

TRIGGER



Modern Brownings have a reputation for having excessively heavy triggers, and this T-Bolt lives down to that reputation. It’s pull weight measures consistently around 5 pounds on a Lyman digital scale. Supposedly, T-Bolt triggers are adjustable for pull weight, but the adjustment screw on this one (like every other T-Bolt I’ve tried) has little real effect.

The one bit of good news is that the trigger on this one (like every other T-Bolt I’ve tried) has a very clean pull with a crisp break. Several homebrew fixes for the pull weight problem can be found here at RimfireCentral, and Jard offers a complete replacement trigger assembly.

On the other hand, the 1517 offers everything you expect from an Anschütz trigger – a lovely pull adjustable through a wide range of low weights. Plus, the trigger shoe is adjustable for length of pull.

Trigger ratings: 1517 - strong keep, T-Bolt - sell

FUNCTION

While Browning has earned a reputation for trigger troubles, Anschütz rimfires have earned a reputation for function flaws – primarily weak ejection and wonky magazines. However, my 1517 functions perfectly, and it shows no evidence of post-factory work to address function problems.

Conversely, the modern T-Bolt – with its beautifully compact 10-round “helix” magazine – is wonderfully reliable, especially once you learn not to baby the bolt lever.

However, this particular T-Bolt has displayed one quirk – CCI TNT cartridges want to jam their hollow point tips into the face of the breech. Retorquing the action screws to about 20 pounds helped, but didn’t solve the problem. I tried a different magazine, and the problem remained. However, all other cartridges load properly.

Function ratings: 1517 - strong keep, T-Bolt - keep.

UTILITY

In the Anschütz galaxy of models and variants, this 1517 is an “MPR” – a “multi-purpose repeater.” But with a weight of 9 pounds, 12 ounces -- with the necessary scope -- that purpose isn’t likely to include walking, especially in the woods or mountains.

So how about position shooting or benchrest competition? Well, few of those disciplines allow 17 HMR. That leaves fixed position varmint hunting, which is cool, but hardly multi.

But here’s where the T-Bolt shines. It weighs 7 pounds, 2 ounces -- with the necessary scope and intended suppressor. The forearm is slim enough for comfortable shooting at any angle but broad enough for rest work.

And with a suppressor, the T-Bolt is remarkably pleasant to shoot. Yes, there’s still a supersonic “crack”, but it’s mild … and hard to identify as a gun shot. This opens the T-Bolt to use in areas where the neighbors might otherwise object. It also means fewer frightened animals and more second-chance shots.

Utility ratings: 1571 - strong go, T-Bolt - strong keep.

INTANGIBLES

Anschütz rifles aren’t cheap, but over the years, I’ve seen plenty of cheap-looking Anschütz stocks. This one isn’t ugly, but it’s plainly grained and oddly stained. Take away the “Anschütz” roll stamp and it could be confused with at 1980s vintage Mossberg.

Meanwhile, this T-Bolt is quite handsome. It has a stylish form with a very practical laminate stock. Indeed, Browning – actually FN’s Japanese production partner, Miroku – is particularly skilled at producing laminate stocks that are handsome, not clownish.



Intangibles rating: 1517 - sell, T-Bolt - strong keep.

Finally, prices are what they are. You can’t rate them, but for the record, new 1517 sells for about $1,200. I paid $650 (after the Browning rebate) for this new T-Bolt.

So, you’ve seen the arguments, and now it’s your turn …



Anschütz 1571 - Keep or sell?

Browning T-Bolt - Keep or sell?


Thanks!
Dave

P.S. This has been a rainy Sunday afternoon writing exercise for me. All comments, positive or negative, are appreciated. Thanks again!

Last edited by dbuffington; 08-03-2017 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Updated function section
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:35 PM
wkd
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Jul 2010
Location: 
Illinois
Posts: 
3,595
TPC Rating: 
95% (17)
Keep the Anschutz!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-24-2017, 08:40 AM
rolltide is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Aug 2003
Posts: 
1,102
TPC Rating: 
100% (6)
Keep both, one for the bench and one for the field...
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 07-24-2017, 10:23 AM
dbuffington

Join Date: 
Jan 2004
Posts: 
2,319
TPC Rating: 
100% (9)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide View Post
Keep both, one for the bench and one for the field...
You do realize you're a bad influence, don't you?

Thanks!
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-24-2017, 10:24 AM
dbuffington

Join Date: 
Jan 2004
Posts: 
2,319
TPC Rating: 
100% (9)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkd View Post
Keep the Anschutz!
Why?

I'm not being a smart a**, I really want to know your reasons.

Thanks!
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-24-2017, 11:23 AM
rolltide is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Aug 2003
Posts: 
1,102
TPC Rating: 
100% (6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbuffington View Post
You do realize you're a bad influence, don't you?

Thanks!
Dave
It's true, but I'm only trying to carry on the tradition of those before me on RFC! This site is directly responsible for me learning about lots of rifles and handguns that I most likely never would have seen or cared about buying were it not for the threads here discussing them.

The same holds true for several target scopes and don't get me started on ammunition. Growing up, my father always shot Winchester 40gr hollow points, mostly Power Points. He didn't care for CCI or Remington and in my area, those are the only choices you would see on the shelves. For this reason, I always shot the same Winchesters, whether hunting, plinking or even shooting Silhouette. Now, if you look through my ammo cabinet, there is some of the Winchester in there, but a lot of other options as well...

Since you already have both, the ONLY logical choice is to keep them and enjoy them. After all, think of all the threads you read where the OP is lamenting about that rifle they wished they hadn't sold or traded away...don't be that guy
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-24-2017, 11:37 AM
alum572's Avatar
alum572
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jul 2010
Location: 
Gopher state
Posts: 
4,549
TPC Rating: 
100% (44)
I like your view of gun rental/ownership. I'd have to count myself into the "rental" group. I always felt that I lost money on every gun I sold . . . now I can say I was just renting. Makes me feel better.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-24-2017, 08:17 PM
dbuffington

Join Date: 
Jan 2004
Posts: 
2,319
TPC Rating: 
100% (9)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alum572 View Post
Makes me feel better.
Works for me!
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-28-2017, 11:01 PM
chicharrones
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2011
Location: 
Galveston Bay is an Hour Away
Posts: 
2,308
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide View Post
Keep both, one for the bench and one for the field...
Yep. This is one of those times that I believe keeping both guns is the way to go.

Just give the Browning that trigger job you know it needs.
__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-31-2017, 09:23 AM
dbuffington

Join Date: 
Jan 2004
Posts: 
2,319
TPC Rating: 
100% (9)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicharrones View Post
Yep. This is one of those times that I believe keeping both guns is the way to go.
I know, I know, but I'm already over my safe limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicharrones View Post
Just give the Browning that trigger job you know it needs.
That's in the works The only question now is about the fate of the Anschütz

Thanks!
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-31-2017, 11:17 AM
snagglepuss

Join Date: 
Mar 2012
Posts: 
1,009
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
[QUOTE=dbuffington;9251897]I know, I know, but I'm already over my safe limit

Well it's obvious. You've 'rented' your current safe for awhile now...so now you sell it and rent a larger one and your problem is solved
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-31-2017, 12:26 PM
dbuffington

Join Date: 
Jan 2004
Posts: 
2,319
TPC Rating: 
100% (9)
Quote:
Originally Posted by snagglepuss View Post
Well it's obvious. You've 'rented' your current safe for awhile now...so now you sell it and rent a larger one and your problem is solved
You guys are positively evil
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-03-2017, 05:13 PM
longislandloco
Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2008
Location: 
Northern New York
Posts: 
896
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
JMHO, the "Annie" stays, I think in the end you'll be happier.........again, JMHO
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-03-2017, 11:22 PM
Badlandsboy
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2013
Location: 
NW North Dakota
Posts: 
478
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
If it comes down to only keeping one , then I would go with the T-Bolt. The trigger is a easy no $ fix as talked about in threads on this site. I have always had better accuracy with the Hornady line of ammo anyway. MHO
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-04-2017, 04:53 AM
Shootingblueboy

Join Date: 
Jul 2017
Location: 
United Kingdom, Warwickshire
Posts: 
209
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I shot my mates T Bolt the other day. It was in .22LR but two things struck me about the rifle. Firstly, the trigger is the work of the devil. Not convinced I have ever used such a poor trigger. However, jesus the thing shot well if you could muster enough strength to make the trigger break.

Sell both and buy a basic 1517. You then have one of the best triggers, decent mechanics and a rifle worthy of hunting and target shooting. You then have space in the cabinet to move on to another purchase. .220 swifts are pretty accurate I hear ha ha ha. Go on.....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:58 PM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x