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  #1  
Old 11-23-2021, 08:54 PM
nukemmc
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41 accuracy and age



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So I recently acquired a mid-90s Model 41 with 5 1/2" barrel. Always interested in one and since parts for my beloved High Standards are getting more scarce, I don't like the grip angle of a Ruger (and just don't like the 22/45) and don't like the price of a Walther SSP or Pardini, I figured I would get a 41 to tinker with.

This one comes with limited knowledge of its history. I bought from a friend who got it a few years ago from GB. Judging by the imprint of the bolt face into the breech face and the mushrooming of contact points between slide and barrel, this pistol has seen well into 5-digits of rounds thru it.






Trigger had consistent creep and was too light (1 lbs 5 ozs). Resolved that with some stoning of hammer and sear surfaces, adjusting the back-cut angle and adjusting the trigger weight "ramp". Now it is a nice, crisp 2 lbs 3 ozs.

Problem I have is accuracy. From 50ft, I can barely hold the black with Aguila SV or Norma Match and forget about it with Remington SV. My Victors shoot 10 shots into about 5/8" from a sandbag rest. This does about 1 1/2". I did a couple rounds of scrubbing the bore with a brush, then a couple rounds of JB and only got a marginal improvement, like maybe 1 1/4" now.

HS Victor on left, 41 on right, 10rds each target, Norma Match ammo at 50ft:


Time to get a liner? Who does a good liner and what liners do they use?

Last edited by nukemmc; 11-24-2021 at 07:31 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2021, 10:33 PM
mostly22lately is online now
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David Sams.

Or you could just get a different barrel.

Sadly, none are available that I know of right now...
Clark is backordered for a long time.
S&W part # 31151 is the 7" but also unobtanium.
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2021, 11:42 PM
ammohog
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Mine is from the late 90s. It usually needs a good scrubbing with Rem 40x bore cleaner after about 5 or 8 boxes or so. If no joy, according to the borescope, I go to JB Bore Cleaning Compound. Borescope again after two sets of 20. If still not happy, I resort to Iosso as a last option. Just don't get too happy with the Iosso. It looks new again. Hope this helps. Accuracy restored!

PS: Also have a Menic .22 Chamber Ironing Swage. Tips available here:

https://www.tandemkross.com/ChamberM...erIroningSwage

Also for crown touch up - these work great. Just turn by hand, this is something that requires a firm but delicate touch. Angle can be adjusted using 100 - 150 grit sanding block for perfect fit using a Dremel and a Protractor. Found here:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/54pc-1-8-...rits/141632688

Last edited by ammohog; 11-24-2021 at 01:13 AM. Reason: more info
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  #4  
Old 11-24-2021, 08:26 AM
Rick H.
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If it were mine, I would take a close look at the barrel with a borescope and see what you have. If it looks reasonably decent than I would run some CCI Standard ammunition thru it and see what the results are. I can say without hesitation that my PC 41 will group like crap with most anything but CCI Standard ammunition, even high end well known target ammo. Most surprising results using different ammunition with this pistol and CCI Standard is best for me.
Rick H.
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Old 11-24-2021, 08:31 AM
LDBennett
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In general, as for the crown, I chuck up the barrel in a lathe and take a 90 degree pass, removing the old crown. I make it a target crown (recessed square cut). I then use the Brownells crowning brass spherical lap in a drill motor, loaded with valve grinding compound to remove the edge of the crown at the bore. I continue until that edge is ground down to below the bottom of the rifling groves.

The square cut to remove the old crown and reform the crown is centerless. So this is no worry of getting an off center crown. Anytime metal is cut, it leaves behind a burr. You need to remove the burr. That is what the spherical lap does and it too is centerless...it will follow the bore.

There are hand tools that guide on the bore. But I worry that they might marr the top of the lands in the bore. Such tools with a floating bush to enter the bore are the best choice if you need to use this type tool. Steady pressure on that tool is required or you will get a very wavy crown chamfer surface.

LDBennett
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Old 11-24-2021, 11:55 AM
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I brought a pistol back to life after severe leading from shooting Thunderbolts using this:
Attached Images
File Type: gif 6A60585A-D4A5-4D32-A5C0-80AA17390D67.gif (32.9 KB, 375 views)
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2021, 01:00 PM
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sicumj
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I would check for a carbon ring at the chamber before purchasing a new barrel.
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Old 11-24-2021, 02:43 PM
Rick H.
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Like I said, check out the interior of the barrel with a good bore scope before you jump to any rash conclusions. Closely examine the muzzle crown too. I would think if you have a heavy carbon ring that would also affect function as well as accuracy, but each firearm is different. If you insert a complete round into the chamber with the muzzle down, does it go all the way in by itself, or does it stop short and have to be pushed in? Truth be told, I can go from a sub 1 inch group at 30' in my basement using CCI Standard ammunition to a +4" group using SK Pistol Match. It gets worse with other ammunition. Try some other ammunition, especially CCI Standard, after you clean and bore scope the barrel and before you do anything else to it. Old .22 barrels can be a nightmare to clean up if they haven't been well taken care of, but improper cleaning can wear one out quickly. I have spent a lot of time cleaning some barrels and had them turn out to be very nice shooters. Wet the barrel with your preferred solvent and leave it sit for a good long time, clean it out and do it again. It's a labor of love sometimes. As a precaution I would immediately replace the recoil spring if you haven't already.

Rick H.

Last edited by Rick H.; 11-24-2021 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:55 PM
SillyMike
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Relining seems a little excessive.

If it was my gun, I'd start be looking at
- Is the bullet getting damaged while chambering? Any lead shavings?
- As the barrel being thoroughly cleaned? Oddly enough, pure gum turpentine (from the art store) works pretty darn good for leaded barrel
- How's the crown?
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:05 PM
nukemmc
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Rounds drop right in.

Crown:


Carbon ring?:


No borescope. I was thinking of a Teslong, but I would probably make more work for myself
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Old 11-24-2021, 11:27 PM
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Whatís that dark ring? Maybe scrub it a bit. Looks ok, can see the throat/lands unless Iím not seein it good.
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Old 11-26-2021, 12:39 PM
ammohog
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Just another "I don't know what is wrong with my accuracy and I would rather not have a borescope'" post. This seems to be an ongoing affliction. Perhaps a group therapy session should be in the near future. Duh???????
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Old 11-27-2021, 09:26 AM
LDBennett
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In my experience unless you pay for the real thing (think $700 and more, Gradient Hawkeye) what you get just doesn't give results that allow any determinations as to the bore quality beyond huge divots in it.

I tried the cheap Ebay versions: fixed focus and focused too far away. Then I tried the Lyman version: Better quantity fixed focus and focus too close. The real one is too expensive for me and certainly would be too expensive to chase a problem like that of the poster.

The key, in my mind, for any bore scope is an inexpensive bore scope that focuses. Both cheaper version use a tiny camera in the far end, unable to be focused. Whereas the real thing bore scope has lenses at the far end, a light transmission tube to carry the image to the other end where a lens set can shift the focus close or far. This type gives a real image and not that of a tiny fixed focus camera. The down side of the real thing is the you then have to add a camera to record the image if that is your desire to show customers? The extended cost is too much for a home gunsmith like me.

LDBennett
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Old 11-27-2021, 11:50 AM
ammohog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDBennett View Post
In my experience unless you pay for the real thing (think $700 and more, Gradient Hawkeye) what you get just doesn't give results that allow any determinations as to the bore quality beyond huge divots in it.

I tried the cheap Ebay versions: fixed focus and focused too far away. Then I tried the Lyman version: Better quantity fixed focus and focus too close. The real one is too expensive for me and certainly would be too expensive to chase a problem like that of the poster.

The key, in my mind, for any bore scope is an inexpensive bore scope that focuses. Both cheaper version use a tiny camera in the far end, unable to be focused. Whereas the real thing bore scope has lenses at the far end, a light transmission tube to carry the image to the other end where a lens set can shift the focus close or far. This type gives a real image and not that of a tiny fixed focus camera. The down side of the real thing is the you then have to add a camera to record the image if that is your desire to show customers? The extended cost is too much for a home gunsmith like me.

LDBennett
I have a Teslong and a Lyman borescope. They both focus very well, and the photos are very sharp and clear. The solution to keeping them focused is a dab of Bowling Grip Cream on the clean adjustment screws and don't put the wand in a bind. The only Achilles Heel with both is the optic cable from the wand to the view screen. it needs to be made of better quality material. Obviously, you haven't tried either one for any length of time.

PS: Grip Cream link - https://luckybowler.com/products/mas...lip-grip-cream

Last edited by ammohog; 11-27-2021 at 01:26 PM. Reason: misspltted a wurd
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  #15  
Old 11-27-2021, 01:52 PM
RawDog

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Do handguns ever wear out??

I wonder if a handgun can wear out? As in, time to purchase another one to replace the old, tired one that exceeded itsí service life?

I ask this because I consider a semi automatic handgun, a machine. Other machines I know of wear out ie: automobiles.

By looking at the original posterís pictures, I would conclude that this M41 is worn out. Look at how much metal has been Ďmovedí. The slide contact points are bulging, for lack of better wording. Also, the breech face has been peened, obviously from many many rounds fired.

I mean no disrespect, but I would start anew with another Model 41 as they arenít difficult to find. Then if the new one wasnít accurate I would would wonder, Why?
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