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  #301  
Old 03-27-2006, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinusB
Vincent, I agree with you - it's not our place to tell someone they can or can't post their rifles anywhere. I'm one of the biggest believers in the word "ultimate" though, and probably got myself a few new enemies after Markbo made that thread in the Ultimates forum: if it isn't the best thing you can think of, then by God, it's not Ultimate. But I'm also of the feeling that when we say "stock", we mean "stock" and not some liberal interpretation thereof. In your example, why is it okay to have a sporter taper barrel, but not a muzzle weighted barrel? Are they not both aftermarket barrels? Do they both not have better crowns and chambers than our stock barrels? To allow one means allowing another, until you've washed out the whole point to this forum to begin with.

I understand what you mean about superstock racing; my background is racing too, but not cars like I assume you gentleman must have raced. In jetskis, superstock meant STOCK parts though, and not just an appearance. And just like cars, we had different classes from "stock" up through "modified", which was usually the pro class. Our superstock class allowed the use of highly modified stock class machines (porting, carb mods, pump mods, etc), but not the bolt-on parts that the "limited" class allowed.

And that's probably why I'm interpreting this the way I am - while you see "superstock" as a genuinely acceptable classification, I see "stock" as the real reason for doing this. To use your analogy of all the un-ultimate ultimates, going half-way with a superstock just doesn't seem as extreme to me. Really, this kinda straddles the fence (in my mind) because there are so many ultimates that are pretty blase, and now we'll have some superstocks that are just a step down from an ulti. I'm all about 100% stock parts, personally, and would like to see more shooters take on THAT challenge, instead of just adhering to a stock appearance.

Am I willing to head up a forum? No stinkin' way! Will I abide by a set of classifications, and likely build something to serve as an example? No doubt.
Where I come from is roadracing Karts, And SuperStock meant Anything goes as long as it bears a resmblance to stock and that what we went with here. Why call it SUPERstock if it is just stock??? That makes no sense at all. Stock guns have a place here, Ultimates have a place. the guns in between never did......now they do......SuperStock.

I guess I have no choice but to take some kind of lead in this.
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  #302  
Old 03-27-2006, 09:55 PM
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Just remember I still love you Vincent
  #303  
Old 03-27-2006, 09:58 PM
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Vincent

I made the mistake of assuming that the SuperStock concept had been settled before starting the 1/4" Club. So, the only "rules" that I made up for the Club pertained to the shooting, measuring and posting of the targets. I was wrong. The first post didn't even come close to what I thought the SuperStock concept was and then I made another mistake by saying so.

I will not make up a set of rules or specifications for SuperStock. I think that you did an excellent job of developing the concept and I think that I am not the only one that agrees with you. What is so difficult about this? If you want to know my thoughts just look at my post, the first one in SuperStock 25 Yd Quarter Inch Club. I built what I think fits the spirit of SuperStock.

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  #304  
Old 03-27-2006, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter05
Just remember I still love you Vincent
What a relief........
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  #305  
Old 03-27-2006, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent
I'm beginning to wonder why anyone would want to do anything in RFC because as soon as you do there will be 10 people standing inline to critize but would NEVER get up actually do something good on their own. You want be a positive influence here? Great. If not why not just just let the people that ARE doing something do it instead of constantly WHINING. ASK GMC Fixer or Sawdust how fun it is to get out front and actually try to do something. It is NOT fun. SCREW IT!!!
Believe me, I know how you feel. Remember when I posted my experiments on shooting clean vs. dirty barrels? It turned into a nine-page fistfight, mostly by people who had never tried it. As I recall, you were my friend at that time, which is why I stayed out of this until someone brought me up almost by name.
  #306  
Old 03-27-2006, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent
I have repeatedly given what I think is it and the majority of people already ih or coming in agreed to it.

Barrels are open to any barrel that is stock, machined stock or after market sporter profile. I gave my word on that and will not back away from it.

Stocks are either factory stock or "trimmed" factory stock.

Inside the rifle you can replace/work on all parts in the receiver. You can tune factory parts like wht I did 30 years ago on mine or you can get Power, VQ, Skeeter parts. go for it

Those have pretty much been my "guidlines" from the start. like it or not.
Sounds fair to me, and not to keep flogging a dead horse but there is nothing about my R22 that's outside those guidelines. And I've seen posts about no "thumbhole stocks" and no "taffy pull stocks" and my gun has neither. You want "no pistol grip stocks," just say so and I'm out--it's just as clear as that.
  #307  
Old 03-27-2006, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromie
I didn't agree at first but, after giving this alot of thought, I kinda wondered, if its ok for Snake to post his pic. of his groups here, then why cant he be included in everything else?
Just to clarify, I have NOT posted pics of R22 groups. The pic I posted was of groups shot with my homebuilt Anschutz 64 "sporter," which I was told WAS in the spirit of SS.

Now I see in the last couple pages on this thread that only semiautos and maybe one type of lever action are to be considered for SS. To quote Barbario, "I'm so confused...."
  #308  
Old 03-27-2006, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake45
Sounds fair to me, and not to keep flogging a dead horse but there is nothing about my R22 that's outside those guidelines. And I've seen posts about no "thumbhole stocks" and no "taffy pull stocks" and my gun has neither. You want "no pistol grip stocks," just say so and I'm out--it's just as clear as that.

Snake

the R22 is not and will not ever be a super stock....while I myself like the rifle it is in no way a classic looking hunting rifle which is what the standard building block for a superstock that was agreed upon in the begining.....the key here is "classic looking hunting rifle".while it may fall into all the other guidelines this is the one that has people in an uproar so to speak.

I know the pics. you posted were from the 64 but it was agreed that it was ok for you to post the others as well, which is what I was talking about....I don't and won't think the R22 is a superstock but I don't know where it fits in around here.

Chromie
  #309  
Old 03-27-2006, 11:46 PM
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Well, my Annie looks about as much like a "classic looking hunting rifle" as any .22 can, I guess....
  #310  
Old 03-28-2006, 03:27 PM
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Maybe a better name for this forum would have been Supersporter. That would at least keep the barrels and stocks in the spirit of things.

JMHO, I'm out now, you guys have fun,
swampf0x
  #311  
Old 03-28-2006, 03:42 PM
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In the spirit of gentlemanliness, I thank you for the clarification on your ideal arrangement of participants. However, I must conceed that this does not seem like something I am interested in. I mean no disprespect, and I am not bringing down the new forum, but this does not sound challenging nor exciting; it doesn't sound like it's for me. I wanted to see modified stock machinery... the far extreme to my, and others', ultimates.
  #312  
Old 03-28-2006, 03:48 PM
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I never realized RFC was so full of lawyers and politicians.

I thought we were people who enjoyed shooting.

SuperStock - Stock looking, yet functions substantially better than stock.

i.e. when you pick up my stock looking gun and fire it for the first time you will quickly realize it is anything but stock. This can be accomplished via trigger mods, bolt mods, bedding, etc. If your gun functions better than a stock gun, while maintaining stock the look then you are in.

Example: A 1/2 MOA Annie un touched is not a super stock, it performs that way from the factory.
Example: A 1 MOA 10/22 is in because from the factory it won't shoot 1 MOA.

Last edited by Jasper21; 03-28-2006 at 03:51 PM.
  #313  
Old 03-28-2006, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinusB
In the spirit of gentlemanliness, I thank you for the clarification on your ideal arrangement of participants. However, I must conceed that this does not seem like something I am interested in. I mean no disprespect, and I am not bringing down the new forum, but this does not sound challenging nor exciting; it doesn't sound like it's for me. I wanted to see modified stock machinery... the far extreme to my, and others', ultimates.
It IS modified stock machinery My gun looks dead stock....for now. But whe I put it back together. The stock will refinished, the STOCK barrel will be set back rechambered to a match chamber. The crown will be recut. The ony not original parts on it will be a trigger, not the group but the blade. It will have a piece or five or 5 inside the workings. The average person picking up my gun will not know it from stock . But it should shoot under a half inch at 50 yards.
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  #314  
Old 03-28-2006, 04:19 PM
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Jasper21

You have it exactly right. Stock outside and Super inside = one good shooting practical gun.

Good luck

sawdust
  #315  
Old 03-28-2006, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake45
Well, my Annie looks about as much like a "classic looking hunting rifle" as any .22 can, I guess....
No offense but why are still tweaking everyones noses 3 or 4 days later about the R-22. For about the forth time it is NOT a sporter by design. If you want to post the gun than go, right freaking now. I can't stop you. I do believe you are starting to loose respect around for the way you have carried on about it. You have just as much to say about it as I do. Go start a thread and say "Here is my SuperStock" If that is what it takes to make you happy DO IT. And then watch the respect level and see where it goes. That a tactical looking gun Not a sporter looking gun And suspectyou've known that from the start.

Man, I have had enough of this crap for a day a week or what ever. A few of us worked to get this done and now people that did not help at all are doing there best to tear it apart. Why should I have take so much crap? This for all of you. Do what ever the hell you want. I getting more to the point that it is just not worth opening the Forum any longer. I've had it and I sure hope you guys had fun whining a good idea to DEATH. But that is what whiners do I guess

Edit: 3-1-07 Ten months have gone by and SuperStock is a screaming success!! The Naysayers are gone for the most part. Some good folks still have questions, that's great. Thanks to all the people that made SuperStock everthing I thought it could be. Thank you ALL!!
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