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Old 11-15-2019, 09:23 PM
Rimfireshooter99

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Single shot vs repeater



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Does anyone know conclusively that a single shot action will be more accurate than a repeater?

What is Anschutz's best single shot 54 action?

Thanks.
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Old 11-15-2019, 10:58 PM
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Single shot Match 54 action Anschutz rifles will have the tightest match chamber that the German manufacturer puts on their rifles. Assuming equal barrels, it makes a difference. But there's the rub. Not all barrels will be exactly the same. The vast majority of barrels for any model will be average for any manufacturer, but some will be a little better, some a little worse.

A lot of the complex equation of "most accurate" can be related to the purpose for which the rifle is used. If it is for bench shooting, some models of Anschutz rifles will be preferable to others. For position shooting (as in the Olympics), other models will be more desirable.

If one were to connect price with accuracy, which sometimes is valid and at others isn't, the most expensive Anschutz rifles are those with 54.30 and 2013 barreled actions.

Until more is known about the kind of shooting at issue, we might be chasing our tails.
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:01 AM
tim slater

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Originally Posted by Rimfireshooter99 View Post
Does anyone know conclusively that a single shot action will be more accurate than a repeater?

What is Anschutz's best single shot 54 action?

Thanks.
Anschutz have achieved much of their reputation through domination of Olympic/International shooting from the 1960s to the 2000s*. This was exclusively with single shot rifles, because that's what the rules require. Domestic 3-P/Prone competitions largely required single loading** too, even if a magazine could be present.

In theory a single shot action will be slightly stiffer than a box magazine repeater, and has a greater bedding surface. In practise, I don't know how much this matters for a 0.22LR.

Then as PG notes there is the chamber.

*The Russians had a go until the USSR imploded with MTs 12s, 112s, 113s, Strelas, Taifuns, and Ural 5s/6s. Walther and FWB won medals, but weren't there in great numbers.

** The magazines found on Winchester 52s and Rem 37s were a hangover from early rapid fire CoFs that fell out of favour.

Last edited by tim slater; 12-30-2019 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Rimfireshooter99 View Post
Does anyone know conclusively that a single shot action will be more accurate than a repeater?
No.
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Old 11-16-2019, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimfireshooter99 View Post
Does anyone know conclusively that a single shot action will be more accurate than a repeater?

What is Anschutz's best single shot 54 action?

Thanks.
If we are talking single shot match rifles versus hunting/sporter repeaters I would have to say in general single shots are more accurate.

as for Anschutz best it would have to be the 54 based actions, but here is the catch, as was mentioned the barrel is the main factor.

Lee
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Old 11-16-2019, 09:53 AM
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Most BR matches are won with single shot actions, but not because they are single shot. No one is going to risk bullet damage by using a magazine, so there is no reason to offer a repeating action. I am convinced, the accuracy potential of a rimfire rifle is virtually 100% determined by the barrel. The factors relating to the action have nothing to do with single shot vs. repeater, but things like spring, firing pin, head space, etc.
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Old 11-16-2019, 02:15 PM
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Single Shot versus Repeater

Thanks everyone. I will be shooting benchrest and currently have a 1903 target barreled action in a SBR stock. It's a repeater, 64 action and I have the MSR stock to go along with it. Was thinking about moving up to a 54 action, so it sounds like the 54.30 might be the best option for benchrest shooting?
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimfireshooter99 View Post
Thanks everyone. I will be shooting benchrest and currently have a 1903 target barreled action in a SBR stock. It's a repeater, 64 action and I have the MSR stock to go along with it. Was thinking about moving up to a 54 action, so it sounds like the 54.30 might be the best option for benchrest shooting?
The 54.30 has a slimmer (22mm), 66cn barrel. The 2013 BR model has a 69cm barrel that is 24mm in diameter. If more weight is not an issue in any competition you may shoot, the heavier barrel can add stability to the rifle off the rest. The 54.30 has a shorter bolt and bolt throw together with a closer (to the shooter) loading port. That gives it an ergonomic edge over the 2013, but it doesn't affect accuracy potential.

In the end, when it comes to accuracy, the ammo will be the more important factor as there's no reason to believe the barrel on a 54.30 will be any more accurate than barrels on other match models, i.e. the 2013 or 1913.
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Old 11-16-2019, 05:30 PM
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Does anyone know conclusively that a single shot action will be more accurate than a repeater? Thanks.
The 64 thousand dollar question.

As Tim has stated and all things being equal (action/barrel/ammo/user) it’s generally accepted that single shot rifles are more accurate than those with a magazine.

Again all things being equal (action/barrel/ammo/user) It’s also generally accepted that most bolt action rifles are more accurate that semi-auto’s. That being said, some newer manufactures are making very accurate semi-auto military rifles.

Winners in my club for 50yd BR Light Varmint class <10.5lbs are always bolt action and winners in Heavy Varmint Class <15lbs are always bolt action single shot match rifles.

Check out your club if your in one, its easy to see what type rifle takes most prizes.

Just my tuppence worth.

Giz
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Old 11-17-2019, 04:44 PM
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I own a few repeaters and single shots namely, 2013 BR-50, 1907, 1907 Repeater and several MSRs. My seat-of-the-pants assessment is that on any given day, you'd be hard pressed to notice a difference in accuracy between any of them.

Having said that, when the 2013 BR-50 is dialed-in, I would say it has a slight accuracy advantage over the others. Probably nothing to do with it being a single shot but more to do with the barrel, receiver and other physical characteristics.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:19 PM
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Years ago I shot rimfire BR with a couple of Calfee built rifles on 40X actions. They were very accurate, as you would expect. I have a 54.18 MSR that is also very accurate, and on any given day might shoot better than the BR rifles. The problem is, "all other things equal" does not apply, because all other things are not often equal. Bill went to great effort in hand lapping the barrels on my BR actions. I believe this attention to detail resulted in a more accurate rifle, but it had nothing to do with the single shot vs. repeater issue. And in fact, blasphemous as it sounds, I have not found that action bedding has much effect on precision accuracy in a rimfire. Absent any binding or uneven barrel contact, I have seen little difference in accuracy.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:01 PM
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Another NO. In theory you would think so but:

I have seen and owned many sporters that outshot single shot rifles.

I am convinced that accuracy is 95% barrel, and receiver and chamber make up a very small part of accuracy potential...Tom
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:03 PM
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I have seen and owned many sporters that outshot single shot rifles.

I am convinced that accuracy is 95% barrel, and receiver and chamber make up a very small part of accuracy potential...Tom
Yeah, to that effect Anschütz updated the 64 action to be be slightly larger in diameter, and therefore "stiffer". Single shot actions are stiffer still because they are not milled out for a magazine. My "old style" 64 action on my Weatherby XXII out-performed my new 64 action on my 64 MSR, even with it's heavier, stiffer barrel. Barrel is the more significant factor.

I don't know how much of a difference the different chamber styles make, but they gotta be well cut. A poorly cut chamber kills a great barrel. Seen this too many times.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:28 AM
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Many posters will be familiar with what is below but newer shooters may not know about the differences between different chambers. The following information is from Rifleman's Guide to Rimfire Ammunition by Steve Boelter.

Rifle manufacturers use one of three basic chambers -- the Sporting, Match, or Bentz chamber. The Sporting chamber is large in internal dimensions the largest and can reliably accommodate all varieties of .22LR ammo. Seen on target and competition rifles, its internal dimensions are much smaller than the Sporting chamber and is used mostly with lubricated lead bullets. The Bentz is a hybrid of the two and is used in semi automatic rimfire rifles designed to use target ammunition for better accuracy.

These three basic chambers have been designed to fit most ammunition varieties available. After comparing accuracy results, Boelter concluded "there's little question about just how much chamber dimensions influence accuracy....A good barrel can shoot just about any ammunition well; the big variable is the chamber."

While it should be no surprise that match chambers produce better results downrange (assuming a good barrel), it's important to note that not all match chambers are the same. Match chambers on mass produced rifles such as Anschutz are made to accommodate a wide variety of ammos. (Even then, some ammos like CCI SV, however, is well-known by many Anschutz shooters to not always chamber well in Anschutz rifles.) Custom-made barrels may have chambers made for specific ammunition varieties. These chambers accommodate certain match ammos better than others, Eley EPS for example. In short, the chamber is designed for a particular variety of ammo.

When Boelter published his book in 2006, he noted there were some 30 different chamber designs available. Today there may well be more. There seems to be every incentive to produce the chamber design that wins more competitions.

To speculate, manufacturers that produce both competition rifles and sporters, as Anschutz does, may very well use more than one single chamber design. Anschutz, like other rifle makers, is very secretive about details such as the specific chamber dimensions it uses. Perhaps Anschutz uses a tighter chamber on its single shot match 54 competition rifles than it does on its sporters. Perhaps Anschutz uses different chambers on 54 and 64 action rifles.

Of course there's no firm evidence for such conjecture. But it seems clear that among the factors that affect a rifle's accuracy downrange both barrel and chamber must be included. A good barrel with a mediocre chamber will not produce results as well as a good barrel and a good chamber. When both are suitable for the ammo being used the basis is established for best results. And in the end, if the ammo is not consistent and suited to the rifle, accuracy will remain elusive.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:07 PM
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Why the barrel is a wild card...

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Originally Posted by Thomasconnor View Post
Another NO. In theory you would think so but:

I have seen and owned many sporters that outshot single shot rifles.

I am convinced that accuracy is 95% barrel, and receiver and chamber make up a very small part of accuracy potential...Tom



Receivers are a known quantity and not difficult to hold constant. Chambers are a known quantity and not difficult to hold constant. The reason barrels are the wild card is because:

1) No barrel is straight. Anschutz straightens every barrel they make the best they can.

2) No bore is straight. And the bore does not necessarily follow the barrel, therefore:

3) No bore is concentric.

These reasons are why no two barrels vibrate the same, or shoot the same. Few quarterbacks could throw a spiral like Dan Marino, and a similar analogy can be made for barrels. Which is why some barrels are less affected by wind than others.

Top benchrest shooters go through several barrels of the same make before settling on one that can win...Tom


Last edited by Thomasconnor; 11-18-2019 at 06:16 PM.
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