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  #16  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:48 PM
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TEDDY BEAR RAT

"What chambering are you looking at? Let us know if you pull the trigger."

I you were referring to me, I'm not in the market for any centerfire at this time.
I was just saying I like well made cool stuff in general, and if I like it enough, I'll pay for it.

As you notice, I usually put the who I'm referring to in my header. It saves confusion.

Smooth
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  #17  
Old 01-24-2020, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEDDY BEAR RAT View Post
What chambering are you looking at? Let us know if you pull the trigger.
TBR
TBR, I suspect this question was for me. As for the SR30, I'm kind of on the fence about it. The one I'm looking at is a .270, and I certainly don't need another .270--not that "need" ever had much to do with my firearms purchases. If I were to buy it, it would be more to have a really cool new toy, not as a practical hunting rifle. I have a much more svelte .270 for those occasions where that would be the cartridge of choice (light- to medium-sized non-dangerous game). So I'll probably dither on this until someone else purchases it!
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2020, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South_Pender View Post
TBR, I suspect this question was for me. As for the SR30, I'm kind of on the fence about it. The one I'm looking at is a .270, and I certainly don't need another .270--not that "need" ever had much to do with my firearms purchases. If I were to buy it, it would be more to have a really cool new toy, not as a practical hunting rifle. I have a much more svelte .270 for those occasions where that would be the cartridge of choice (light- to medium-sized non-dangerous game). So I'll probably dither on this until someone else purchases it!
Understood. The coolness factor, certainly not need, plays heavily in my firearms purchasing as well. You may end up dithering more than you expect before someone buys it, though. Rifles in that price range may appeal to many, but most cannot afford them, so, definitely a limited market. Also, irrespective of how great the SR30 may be, it is not nearly as well known as the Blaser, for instance, that seems to be popular enough to have established a reputation and a sufficient track record of very good resale value.

FWIW, I think my friend paid about $2300 USD ten years ago, and I recall there was a premium for that full-stock configuration.

Have fun dithering away.

TBR
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  #19  
Old 02-06-2020, 12:25 AM
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I love linear actio/straight pull guns!
Straight pull center-fires are nothing new, esp. in europe.

The great european rifle race:

At the outset the The mauser 66 telescoping action was king. Then blaser made their "ideal" model, followed by the R93 and finallythe R8 collet lock guns (super strong by design) which directly competed with and largely beat out the heym.
Somewhere in there FN browning makes the "Acera" (These can be had for like $600)
Merkel spit the hook on the KR-1 (an updated mauser 66) bolt gun and introduces the Helix to dominate the market.
Browning playing catch-up, and hoping to capture the low end of market, deletes the gas system from a BAR and calls it the "Maral"

and those are the survivors
-Helix (biathlon speed in centerfire)
-R8 (tested by DEVA to 210,000+psi)
-Maral (again, just a BAR with broken gas system)

food for thought:
The machine tools used to make your rifles hold their cutters in collets....
where-as the air hose on a die grinder connects with ball bearings.
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  #20  
Old 02-06-2020, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LeShaghal View Post
food for thought:
The machine tools used to make your rifles hold their cutters in collets....
where-as the air hose on a die grinder connects with ball bearings.
Not sure what this means, but the ball-bearing lockup on the Heym looks more positive to me than the collet system on the Blaser.
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  #21  
Old 02-06-2020, 04:29 PM
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For some reason the Germans seem obsessed with "modernizing" the Mauser turn bolt rifle regardless of price or complication.
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  #22  
Old 02-06-2020, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by LeShaghal View Post
food for thought:
The machine tools used to make your rifles hold their cutters in collets....
where-as the air hose on a die grinder connects with ball bearings.
Thought: these are two functionally unrelated mechanical connections.
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  #23  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by karls42 View Post
For some reason the Germans seem obsessed with "modernizing" the Mauser turn bolt rifle regardless of price or complication.
Well, I suppose it could be argued that a straight-pull action is more than just an elaboration of the turn-bolt system, and offers a real advantage in speed of reloading.
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  #24  
Old 02-11-2020, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dgeesaman View Post
Thought: these are two functionally unrelated mechanical connections.
Though: If the ball&pocket system were deemed precise and strong enough it would be used in more high precision applications (given the level of accuracy per $ spent one gets from a ball bearing)....but it isn't, so it isn't, so why then in a firearm would it suddenly be superior?

Collets are used in tool holding, part holding, stock feeding, and a multitude of other machining processes because of its positive grip, on/off actuation, and exceptional repeat-ability (better centering)

An expanding collet&mandrel tightens exponentially with force applied to the expander (the harder its hit, the tighter it gets) where-as the balls are constantly trying to "collapse" pounding and peening the mandrel.
The former has surface contact the latter point contact (where the sphere touches the mandrel)

What I'm driving at:
You'll never meet a bigger fan of the fortner and in a rimfire it's totally sufficient. But comparing the two, pound for pound, Blaser's collet system is stronger by an order of magnitude. Not as a matter of opinion....as a matter of fact.
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  #25  
Old 02-11-2020, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeShaghal View Post
What I'm driving at:
You'll never meet a bigger fan of the fortner and in a rimfire it's totally sufficient. But comparing the two, pound for pound, Blaser's collet system is stronger by an order of magnitude. Not as a matter of opinion....as a matter of fact.
For what it's worth, the Heym system has been tested at 110,000 PSI pressure and held together--twice the maximum pressure for the cartridge.

One other thing: Was the same collet system used in the Blaser R93--the model that preceded the R8? That's the model that had one or more instances of the disastrous accidental blow-back from excessive charges, I believe--one of the reasons I've never been keen on the Blaser. Here's some information on one such incident. Reference to the Blaser R93 starts at about the 4th post in the thread.

https://www.africahunting.com/thread...warning.14239/

Haven't heard of any such problems with the Heym SR30.

Last edited by South_Pender; 02-11-2020 at 01:20 PM.
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  #26  
Old 02-11-2020, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeShaghal View Post
But comparing the two, pound for pound, Blaser's collet system is stronger by an order of magnitude. Not as a matter of opinion....as a matter of fact.

While I mostly agree with you, I have to point out that your statement above is definitely a matter of opinion, not fact. We simply don't have the numbers to determine which of these two rifles are stronger, let alone claim that one is "stronger by an order of magnitude", which I seriously doubt.
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  #27  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:51 AM
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Didn't have to be this way.
Get your readers on, we're going to be here a while............

We'll start here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripen View Post
We simply don't have the numbers to determine which of these two rifles are stronger, let alone claim that one is "stronger by an order of magnitude", which I seriously doubt.
But we do have the numbers....conclusively!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeShaghal View Post
-R8 (tested by DEVA to 210,000+psi)]
Deva is a german testing agency/proof house...google it, they're reputable

R8-210,000+psi
sr30-110,00psi (more on this later)

Those are Factual numbers....so I'll reiterate...

Pound for pound, the R8 is stronger. FACT not Opinion

Is it better? Who's to say? I like the sr30s ergonomics more, and they shoot great...like absurdly good.
So No, neither is better.

As to that eyeroll.........

210/110=1.9 so 90% stronger using the numbers given by the proof house....when something is nearly twice as strong one could colloquially state that it is "An order of magnitude" stronger.
(Mathematically speaking and order of magnitude is typically 10x....Potato, Potahto)

If my 2x vs 10x upset you, In future I'll choose my words more carefully.

--------------------------------Next comment---------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by South_Pender View Post
Was the same collet system used in the Blaser R93--the model that preceded the R8? That's the model that had one or more instances of the disastrous accidental blow-back from excessive charges.

Haven't heard of any such problems with the Heym SR30.
The R93 had Serious problems, corners were cut on material (plastic), they could hang fire (allowing the user to unlock the collet before ignition) the pedals on the collet were critically engineered, gas was improperly vented and Blaser got a big ole' black eye over all of it.

Yes, Heym has made more (as many as 4000 more) rifles than Blaser made R93s,
without a single problem.

Does it's failure speak to the strengths of the system? NO

No more than a anschutz Fortner chambered in 300WinMag failing would speak to the strength of the ball system!

Any system can be under-built or sabotaged by bad execution.

-------------------------------------Now a change of tact----------------------------------

A little overview on the SR30:

The six hardened ball bearings lock into six concave recesses in the action.
These hemispheres are embossed/forged in the course of production and then normalized and the whole thing hardened, they are not milled or EDMed and this makes them wicked tough. The hardened mandrel has striaght cut groves cut in it (no taper) that seat the balls in their corresponding hemispheres.
In Short, She's a brute!

These monsters are way overbuilt (again Pound for POUND) all to overcome the deficiencies of the ball lock system.
Collets are driven by tapers, that wedging action makes them uber repeatable, great at centering, and TIGHT.
Like KUNGFU GRIP x1000 TIGHT
(Warning: this is not an actual measurement of force)

A collet action overbuilt to the degree the SR30 is may well be the aforementioned 10x as strong? But it doesn't have to be that beefy. As petite as it is now its nearly 2x as strong.
(here we are again, Pound for pound)

The way the SR30 is built the balls wont fail (nor have they ever to my knowledge)

They do however deform (and/or peen the mandrel) and fail to lock after seeing an over-pressure in the 100,000psi range. once peened they never go back into battery, and a new madrel must be sourced.

Get into these crazy high pressures and the brass gives up. Then gas comes screaming out the vent hole. The sr30 has a HUGE vent hole so when this happens gasses don't drive back the center mandel like a piston and unlock the breach. This was a legitimate design concern and the mandrel is made to reduce frontal surface area so this can't happen.

What'd we learn?
Not a whole bunch, it's all pretty moot.

-"An order of magnitude"=10x (yeah I had to phone a friend on that one)
-Collets are crazy strong
-Balls can be strong too.
-Both are innovative and sufficient.
-Straight pulls rock!

Here's an SR30 that saw ≈155,000psi (stayed locked)





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  #28  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeShaghal View Post
Didn't have to be this way.
Get your readers on, we're going to be here a while............

We'll start here:



But we do have the numbers....conclusively!



Deva is a german testing agency/proof house...google it, they're reputable

R8-210,000+psi
sr30-110,00psi (more on this later)

Those are Factual numbers....so I'll reiterate...

Pound for pound, the R8 is stronger. FACT not Opinion
Well, this is hardly dispositive. Heym tested the SR30 at 110,000 psi, but who's to say it would not have held together at the 210,000 psi of the Blaser? You have compared the two testing pressures, not the maximum that each action could take. You have inferred relative strength from the two "factual numbers" that index something other than ultimate strength.
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  #29  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:44 PM
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The most powerful .22lr cartridge in the world is no match for the Fortner bolt.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2506233104

I've heard through back channels (Waynes World) that the Fortner Bolt has withstood, One.....Million psi of pressure.

So there it is. Booyah!

Absolute thing of beauty.

Smooth

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 02-14-2020 at 08:58 PM.
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  #30  
Old 02-17-2020, 01:59 PM
LeShaghal

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To flog a dead stead Further still

Quote:
Originally Posted by South_Pender View Post
Well, this is hardly dispositive. Heym tested the SR30 at 110,000 psi, but who's to say it would not have held together at the 210,000 psi of the Blaser?

Dude, you're wearing me out.
This is my last post, from here on in you're on your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by South_Pender View Post
...who's to say...
The proofing house...its why they exist.

The proof houses in Suhl ceased testing @ 117,600psi as mentioned in Heym's sales literature. (typically of a test series, they stop when the arm in question shows signs of damage that renders the arm inoperable...not to total failure)



You keep citing the 110,000psi number. so we'll throw that in our data set.

Another, more agressive destructive series , was undertaken and stopped at 155,190psi

"The breech did not withstand the stress undamaged. Contrary to what you would expect from a Blaser R93, the breech did not fly backwards despite the overload. The sleeve is now scrap. The extractor and it's spring too. The fact that the Heym SR 30N held 10,700 bar peak gas pressure before blowing through the sleeve and deforming it, Instead of opening the lock and hurling the bolt at the shooter's face is admirable. All respect to Peter Fortner!"

(I love that They call out the R93...just Savage)

Photos of the results from that series are shown in my earlier post.

We can then conclusively say, Based on ALL the data (produced by professionals)
The SR30 is good for;

110,000 or
117,600 or
155,190 psi

So in the most destructive test ever undertaken
They still stopped at <75% of 210kPsi

In the face of that data, I'd call the conclusion not only Factual but Irrefutable!

The trend seems clear and the available numbers speak for themselves

Form your own opinion(s).

Last edited by LeShaghal; 02-20-2020 at 07:09 AM.
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