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  #181  
Old 02-23-2021, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia View Post
Please watch your mouth... er... fingers. That string of %%% in your post indicates you're using language we don't appreciate on this family-friendly forum, nor are we happy with insults directed at other members. If the topic of your sentence or post is another member rather the topic of the conversation you are probably straying off course.

In other news, I've been playing the harmonica for decades but still can't get a decent tune out of it.
Sorry for my outburst, but all I asked was a simple question about what barrel length a person chose for his rifle. Then someone posted a smart aleck remark accusing me of being a stupid neophyte. I'm well aware that every shooter has a preference for the various specs on his rifle, and that many of you are more experienced in this game than others. I'm sure that Mike would not offer a barrel on his rifles if it did not perform. He does offer either a 22 inch or 24 inch option FYI.

Last edited by jps2486; 02-23-2021 at 12:00 PM.
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  #182  
Old 02-23-2021, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jps2486 View Post
Sorry for my outburst, but all I asked was a simple question about what barrel length a person chose for his rifle.

***Hold on there Paul, there's more to the story than you are aware of.***

Then someone posted a smart aleck remark accusing me of being a stupid neophyte.

***No one accused you of being a "stupid neophyte". He did say that this is where a guy's inexperience shows through, and he was CORRECT. His post was not "smart aleck", it was the truth. I have had 6 custom RFBR rifles built in the last 5 years and several re-barreled. Not one of them has been predetermined as to barrel length.....NONE. The smith slugs them and determines where to cut, crown and chamber them all on his own. That is the expertise you are paying for in an accredited and note worthy smith. For the guys that barrel their own actions, they do the same, and I have shot against many of them. Several are very good.***

I'm well aware that every shooter has a preference for the various specs on his rifle, and that many of you are more experienced in this game than others.

***With the above, you are correct up to one point, barrel length. For that answer, see above.***

I'm sure that Mike would not offer a barrel on his rifles if it did not perform. He does offer either a 22 inch or 24 inch option FYI.
Now Paul, or anyone else who thinks you 'choose' your barrel length on a competitive RFBR rifle, carefully read the above edited quote from 'jps2486'.

Okay, lets get something straight here, Mike/Vudoo is not building custom rifles, he and his partners are building factory rifles for order, hence, they offer 2 barrel lengths. He has explained this in numerous posts on numerous forums. He explains to 'ALL' that all of the "custom action MFG's" are "hobbyists" MFG's. I will let others decide if he is correct or not.

Now, I think you can get a Vudoo action to have a smith build you a custom rifle, but if that smith is worth his salt, then he is going to slug and cut your barrel and then finish it at what he thinks will give optimal performance. The custom smith that Mike Bush has built an alliance with, IMO, will no doubt slug, crown, and finish the barrel at whatever length he deems appropriate for best performance from that particular barrel blank, but....that's not the smith you are getting a rifle built by when you order a finished rifle from Vudoo. You will get a rifle built by whoever does rifles at the Vudoo factory. In big time RFBR the barrel blank tells the smith what the length will be......NOT the end user.

Scott

Last edited by doclu60; 02-23-2021 at 09:44 PM.
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  #183  
Old 02-23-2021, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by doclu60 View Post
Now Paul, or anyone else who thinks you 'choose' your barrel length on a competitive RFBR rifle, carefully read the above edited quote from 'jps2486'.

Okay, lets get something straight here, Mike/Vudoo is not building custom rifles, he and his partners are building factory rifles for order, hence, they offer 2 barrel lengths. He has explained this in numerous posts on numerous forums. He explains to 'ALL' that all of the "custom action MFG's" are "hobbyists" MFG's. I will let others decide if he is correct or not.

Now, I think you can get a Vudoo action to have a smith build you a custom rifle, but if that smith is worth his salt, then he is going to slug and cut your barrel and then finish it at what he thinks will give optimal performance. The custom smith that Mike Bush has built an alliance with, IMO, will no doubt slug, crown, and finish the barrel at whatever length he deems appropriate for best performance from that particular barrel blank, but....that's not the smith you are getting a rifle built by when you order a finished rifle from Vudoo. You will get a rifle built by whoever does rifles at the Vudoo factory. In big time RFBR the barrel blank tells the smith what the length will be......NOT the end user.

Scott
How does post # 170 fit into this?
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  #184  
Old 02-23-2021, 11:16 PM
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How does post # 170 fit into this?
Good observation. I expect the man from Vudoo is the best one to answer.
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  #185  
Old 02-24-2021, 08:03 AM
RAVAGE
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Originally Posted by doclu60 View Post
Now Paul, or anyone else who thinks you 'choose' your barrel length on a competitive RFBR rifle, carefully read the above edited quote from 'jps2486'.

Okay, lets get something straight here, Mike/Vudoo is not building custom rifles, he and his partners are building factory rifles for order, hence, they offer 2 barrel lengths. He has explained this in numerous posts on numerous forums. He explains to 'ALL' that all of the "custom action MFG's" are "hobbyists" MFG's. I will let others decide if he is correct or not.

Now, I think you can get a Vudoo action to have a smith build you a custom rifle, but if that smith is worth his salt, then he is going to slug and cut your barrel and then finish it at what he thinks will give optimal performance. The custom smith that Mike Bush has built an alliance with, IMO, will no doubt slug, crown, and finish the barrel at whatever length he deems appropriate for best performance from that particular barrel blank, but....that's not the smith you are getting a rifle built by when you order a finished rifle from Vudoo. You will get a rifle built by whoever does rifles at the Vudoo factory. In big time RFBR the barrel blank tells the smith what the length will be......NOT the end user.

Scott
Scott, like Sam Wells, what you're saying here is correct as it relates to how barrel length is and should be determined in "big time" RFBR, but let's look at the actual issue Paul is calling out.

I've taken a bit of time to go back and look at the very first posts made by many of the current "big time" RFBR shooters and what I've noted has been enlightening. Paul stated that he was "just asking a question" after reading a response from Sam Wells and it's interesting that you, Sam Wells and many others stated the very same thing when you received a response much the same as Paul did.

After Sam Wells asked a question eight years ago about scope rings, he stated, "I haven't done anything but ask a question if all you people are like this guy I don't want to be in this forum." So, the actual answer to Paul's question isn't what fueled his disdain, no different than it did yours and Sam's many years ago. Paul was reacting to a "commonality" that everyone reacts to but the pattern over the years is incredible. I can paste the original posts here if you like.

Also, there seems to be some consternation about my use of the word "hobbyist," but as you rightly called out the "truth" in your post above, I'll do the same here. If we look at the definition of the word "hobbyist," this is what we'll see:

hobbyist ►
n. One who rides a hobby; one who is devoted in an enthusiastic and one-sided manner to a particular principle, pursuit, method, or “fad.”
n. A person who is interested in a subject or an activity as a hobby
n. a person who pursues an activity in their spare time for pleasure

I believe we all have the appropriate level of intellect to determine who/what fits that definition and who doesn't (based on the words posted by those involved), so as you stated, I'll let everyone decide for themselves. Anyone falling into that category isn't being slighted by me in any way, I'm just being truthful about stark differences in how the varied players are approaching what we're doing.

Hope this helps,
MB

Last edited by RAVAGE; 02-24-2021 at 08:57 AM.
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  #186  
Old 02-24-2021, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911nut View Post
How does post # 170 fit into this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Williwaw View Post
Good observation. I expect the man from Vudoo is the best one to answer.
I can only say this, every barrel I have owned/own since I got into sanctioned RFBR has been smithed by guys that have had their equipment in the winners circle. They were all smithed to a length that the smith determined, not me.

If Mike/Vudoo has come up with a new/better way of doing it, time will tell. My post was merely to confirm what is to be expected if one has a custom rifle built by any of the big names in custom rifle/barrel work for competitive sanctioned RFBR.

Scott
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  #187  
Old 02-24-2021, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RAVAGE View Post
...there are usually pronounced oscillations of tight spots along the bore of many barrels. What I asked for from Shilen for the Ratchets we receive, is a gradual taper that's uniform along the length of the blank.

This is important because we don't have to be as choosy about which tight spot we use, as the uniformity of taper always ensures you're selecting a "tight" spot. I can't say for sure, as I've not asked specifically, but this may have something to do with the rate at which we're receiving barrels from Shilen as I do know they took the requirements very seriously.

MB
I'm still relatively new to all this. Perhaps someone with experience can address the following questions.

Are these gradually tapered bores free of oscillations of tight spots? In other words are the tapers always even and uniform through the length of the bore?

How long are the blanks that are gradually tapered?

How much "tighter" are they at one end than the other?
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  #188  
Old 02-24-2021, 10:13 AM
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I'm still relatively new to all this. Perhaps someone with experience can address the following questions.

Are these gradually tapered bores free of oscillations of tight spots? In other words are the tapers always even and uniform through the length of the bore?

How long are the blanks that are gradually tapered?

How much "tighter" are they at one end than the other?
Well, that's the plan, but difficult to quantify due to a lack of overall control as it relates to the desired outcome. No matter what, lapping is lapping and short of using a laser bore scanner (or equivalent metrology method), it's impossible to know real numbers. We're looking at adding a laser bore scanner to our list of in-house resources.

The blanks are typically 26".

My Mueller, which was slugged, etc., turned out at right around 25". But, the level of attention given to that barrel, which is in perfect alignment with what Scott Albury is speaking to above, can't be given to hundreds of barrels in what we try to keep at a short amount of time. So the exercise has been to reduce variables to a controllable level in an effort to build consistency into everything we do.

MB
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  #189  
Old 02-24-2021, 10:24 AM
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From #170

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Originally Posted by RAVAGE View Post
Sam,
What you're saying is true as there are usually pronounced oscillations of loose and tight spots along the bore of many barrels. What I asked for from Shilen for the Ratchets we receive, is a gradual taper that's uniform along the length of the blank.

This is important because we don't have to be as choosy about which tight spot we use, as the uniformity of taper always ensures you're selecting a "tight" spot. I can't say for sure, as I've not asked specifically, but this may have something to do with the rate at which we're receiving barrels from Shilen as I do know they took the requirements very seriously.

MB
I think this is what those barrel makers aim to do every time they make a " match grade" barrel and not to one company's spec. Remington and Winchester also used one length of barrel (28") and most of the time it worked really well. So, I am not saying your wrong for doing so. It takes several steps of of the MFG process out and most will be happy with the results and the $$ saved for doing it that way. For those that really don't think its the way to go, order the action only and have your own barrel fitted for just a few $$$ more. If you can get a barrel.

Mike is doing the rimfire community a big favor, putting NEW very accurate American Made rifles out to shooters, that don't want to buy USED, foreign made or one off custom rifles. This is what makes me wonder why people give him such a hard time. No good deed goes unpunished I suppose.
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  #190  
Old 02-24-2021, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 52DH&R12 View Post
I think this is what those barrel makers aim to do every time they make a " match grade" barrel and not to one company's spec. Remington and Winchester also used one length of barrel (28") and most of the time it worked really well. So, I am not saying your wrong for doing so. It takes several steps of of the MFG process out and most will be happy with the results and the $$ saved for doing it that way. For those that really don't think its the way to go, order the action only and have your own barrel fitted for just a few $$$ more. If you can get a barrel.

Mike is doing the rimfire community a big favor, putting NEW very accurate American Made rifles out to shooters, that don't want to buy USED, foreign made or one off custom rifles. This is what makes me wonder why people give him such a hard time. No good deed goes unpunished I suppose.
52DH&R12,

Very well said.

This sport needs people like MB and we certainly don't have enough of them. We should appreciate the few we have.

The great thing about unlimited RFBR is there are no restrictions preventing you from making it yourself the way you want it.

Build it, and bring it!

TKH
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  #191  
Old 02-24-2021, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 52DH&R12 View Post
Mike is doing the rimfire community a big favor, putting NEW very accurate American Made rifles out to shooters, that don't want to buy USED, foreign made or one off custom rifles. This is what makes me wonder why people give him such a hard time. No good deed goes unpunished I suppose.
I'm one of those shooters. Vudoo affords me an option that is well suited to my requirements and is much more attractive than the alternatives.
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  #192  
Old 02-24-2021, 03:09 PM
RAVAGE
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Originally Posted by 52DH&R12 View Post
I think this is what those barrel makers aim to do every time they make a " match grade" barrel and not to one company's spec. Remington and Winchester also used one length of barrel (28") and most of the time it worked really well. So, I am not saying your wrong for doing so. It takes several steps of of the MFG process out and most will be happy with the results and the $$ saved for doing it that way. For those that really don't think its the way to go, order the action only and have your own barrel fitted for just a few $$$ more. If you can get a barrel.

Mike is doing the rimfire community a big favor, putting NEW very accurate American Made rifles out to shooters, that don't want to buy USED, foreign made or one off custom rifles. This is what makes me wonder why people give him such a hard time. No good deed goes unpunished I suppose.
Yessir, you're absolutely correct and Shilen has been doing an outstanding job. I've not asked them to do anything "new" or different, just managing what we get so we can ensure consistency. They've been awesome to deal with and I see it continuing to go forward very well.

Thanks Dude,
MB
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  #193  
Old 02-24-2021, 03:41 PM
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How many barrels a month do you get from Shilen??? Enough to keep up with orders ??thx
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  #194  
Old 02-24-2021, 04:58 PM
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How many barrels a month do you get from Shilen??? Enough to keep up with orders ??thx
It varies, they're running behind much the same as everyone else right now.

MB
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Old 02-24-2021, 07:52 PM
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I pray ALL THINGS GUN get back to normal. Can I get an AMEN. I am the one that started all this ,with a simple ? IMOP this has been very informational. GOOD SHOOTING TO ALL
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