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  #1  
Old 04-20-2019, 05:22 PM
ptf18

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Weighing ammo



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Fellows. For those of you that weigh 22rf ammo. What "tolerances" in weight are you using?
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:03 PM
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Don't waste your time doing this, it doesn't work. Lots of threads around here that discussed weighing and headspacing rimfire ammo.
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:54 PM
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DITO
Total waste, along with measuring rims, overall length, bullet dia., etc., etc.
The stuff that makes 22 ammo go into the same hole on one hand and throw flyers on the other we have No Control Over.
Buy several lots of non-bulk, quality ammo, test shoot, find the best lot and hope that they have a lot more to buy and/or that you have enough money to buy a lot.
Then do the trigger time to put 'em where ya want 'em.
And each gun may well prefer a different ammo but the principles are the same for each.
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Old 04-20-2019, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcrank1 View Post
DITO
Total waste, along with measuring rims, overall length, bullet dia., etc., etc.
The stuff that makes 22 ammo go into the same hole on one hand and throw flyers on the other we have No Control Over.
Buy several lots of non-bulk, quality ammo, test shoot, find the best lot and hope that they have a lot more to buy and/or that you have enough money to buy a lot.
Then do the trigger time to put 'em where ya want 'em.
And each gun may well prefer a different ammo but the principles are the same for each.
I would agree, unless your barrels have specific cut chambers for the ammo you are shooting, then OAL length sorting does help!

Lee

Last edited by Hi-NV Shooter; 04-20-2019 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 04-20-2019, 09:30 PM
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+ or - 2 grams per brick.
Long story short I broke down and weighed all the components except the primers of a LOT of 17HMR rounds back when semis were blowing up trying to find rhyme or reason to avoid mine going kaboom. Weighing was a waste of a lot of time when so many other important factors are involved in the manufacturing process. Go fishing instead.
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Old 04-21-2019, 06:56 AM
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Weighing ammo

Thanks Fellows. Was trying to find an "excuse" for my .... "performance" . Thought sure is is ammo related.
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Old 04-21-2019, 08:01 AM
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It probably is! At least a big part of it; and sadly we cant do anything about it like handloading.
Given a conscientious operator the ammo will bite us all in the butts, if not sooner then later.
If you havent, see Jaia's thread '50 at 200'.
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Old 04-21-2019, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ptf18 View Post
Thanks Fellows. Was trying to find an "excuse" for my .... "performance" . Thought sure is is ammo related.
Barrel, ammo, and the shooter are the top 3 factors of accuracy in still air. Have you tried a few different higher grade medium priced ammo to see if the rifle and or you is up to your hopes, expectations?
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Old 04-21-2019, 08:37 AM
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What are you weighing

One of the reasons weighing does not work is you never know what the cause of variation is.
Bullet weight?
Case weight?
Propellant weight?
Primer weight?

Probably combinations of all of the above but you never know what factors are varying.

By the way this subject used to cause knock down, bitter fights here at RFC. Thankfully, it seems, good manners prevail here!
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Old 04-21-2019, 11:47 AM
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Agree with the good manners here. A couple of those other sites can get really nasty. REALLY nasty. Just don't see the point of that.
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Old 04-21-2019, 02:41 PM
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WalnutBlue,

SHOW me the money!
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Old 04-21-2019, 02:49 PM
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Oh No
It looks like another decade of weighed testing of multiple brands and lots will be required .
I will throw out that X Brand may have its weight variance in the bullets, Y Brand in the cases, Z Brand in the powder so that weighed results will only apply generally to a given brand?
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Old 04-21-2019, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalnutBlue View Post
Lets try and...maybe for the first time on topic, respond with facts
. . .

That's what I was looking for from you.

I look for details.
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Old 04-21-2019, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
here's the rub, I didn't really do my scientific test the way I said and didn't actually select the ammo I presented as tested"-wow.
Taken completely out of context. This comment accredited to me is only partially correct and is use to discredit a very large experiment I did. I weight tested 7 different brands of ammo and could find litle correlation between weight and velocity or group size. Then in order to show just how one can be fooled from just one experiment I took a previously tested brand/lot and selected two rounds at random and called them "control" and shot them. Then I selected two more rounds at random and and called them weigh "sorted "and shot them. After I had shot 15 two shot groups of each called control and each called sorted then I did a Students T test on the data. For those who do not know what a Students T test is, it is a scientific method of calculating if one distribution is different from the other and to what level of confidence. When doing an experiment in the semiconductor industry a confidence level of 95% is the gold standard and must be repeated for some number of lots. This is usually the QC engineer's responsibility to tell me how many lots I need to run the experiment on. Remember, all my other experiments in that test were actually sorted and fired against none sorted ammo and the T test would come out at some low confidence level that the sorted was better than the control and the next time the control was better. This is why I stated that in the main experiment I could not scientifically conclude that weighing (or measuring rim thickness) had no effect on velocity spread. Now back to my so call unscientific test. You guessed it, the "control"was better than the "sorted" to the 90% confidence level even though none of that test was sorted by anything.

Based on the one "test" and it really wasn't a test but only to show how one can be fooled by looking at only one experiment, and that is the reason for Walnutblue's comment.

I long ago stopped presenting data because the answer by those who believed was, "You didn't test enough", "You used to0 accurate a rifle", You didn't test the right ammo", "you didnn't do the test correctly" and now "You didn't do the test scientifically like you said you did".

For the record, I was a benchrest shooter from 2004 through 2014 and won about 100 matches here in Colorado and Ne Mexico. I set records in long range silhouette matches from 65 to 200 meters, I set a record for a 5 shot group at 100 yards and I set records for High average for the year 10 times. I spent $200 on a chronograph specifically to do some of these tests plus spent some dollars buying ammo I wouldn't normally but so I could test it.

Finally velocity spreads is one and only one cause of poor ammo. But I will go on record and say that my threshold is no more than 30 FPS but that does not guarantee a lot will meet my expectations. That's why benchrest shooters test, test, test. When you are paying entry fees and $15.00 and up for ammo you better darn well know what makes a good lot and what doesn't. And weight sorting is not the answer.
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Old 04-21-2019, 04:38 PM
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This will never end.
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