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View Poll Results: Would you be interested in a "Homebuilt 10/22 Match"
Yes. Sounds like fun to shoot my 10/22 on a level playing field. 11 42.31%
No. We already have enough matches, let the 10/22s "sink or swim". 15 57.69%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 10-20-2005, 05:46 PM
Bucks Owin

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10/22 self modified match?



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Greetings and salutations all,

Seems to me that in the various matches we enjoy here, there are a handfull of expert shooters with exceedingly accurate "non 10/22" rifles that head up the winner's lists every month. I wonder if others feel as I do in that while fun to shoot, there's not a "snowball's chance in hades" of ever winning one of these matches with a homebuilt 10/22. I think that when pairing a pro-built Win 52 for example against a homemade GM barreled 10/22 (assuming shooters of equal ability) the outcome is pretty predictable. I don't want to come across as being "whiney", we're ALL in reality "shooting against ourselves", trying to improve our personal best scores and enjoy the shooting for it's own sake. Still, it would be nice to have a chance of winning a match against shooters using similar equipment now and then....

I know that it takes a lot of time and effort to run the various matches that we already run and I wouldn't want to burden anybody with yet another match to keep track of. However if there's any interest in a "Homebuilt 10/22 match", please indicate your interest. If no one wants to take on the listing of results etc, I'll volunteer to do it. And if anyone objects to my shooting "in my own match" that's OK too. I can still gauge my own/rifle's performance with a non qualified score. Any takers?

(BTW, this would exclude anyone with something like a VQ "10/22" or similar aftermarket rifle) THIS IS FOR SELF BUILT* PRODUCTION 10/22s ONLY!

* Having a gunsmith install your aftermarket parts is allowed....

Last edited by Bucks Owin; 10-20-2005 at 06:00 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2005, 06:11 PM
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Bucks, I thought the semi auto shoot kind of took care of that. Bernie...
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2005, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by autoloader
Bucks, I thought the semi auto shoot kind of took care of that. Bernie...
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  #4  
Old 10-20-2005, 09:19 PM
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GMCFixer has/had a match that fits that description with the addition of a $300 limit on mods/scope. He runs it in the 10/22 forum I think
Paul
edited to add:
He runs it in the open rimfire forum
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...eferrerid=3092
and apparently it's still going on

Last edited by knitepoet; 10-20-2005 at 09:24 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-20-2005, 10:04 PM
Danny Creasy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucks Owin

* Having a gunsmith install your aftermarket parts is allowed....
Doesn't that negate the "self built" part? And what does prevent the semi-auto match from filling the bill? Not being disagreeable just needing some clarification.
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  #6  
Old 10-20-2005, 11:17 PM
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I think it is an interesting idea.

Rules are the big hurdle to clear. I personally like the idea of "homebuilt means no gunsmith work, aftermarket parts only", but...both of my bolts are CPC.

Dave managed this by doing a low-dough, which was a clever way of minimizing the effect of expert smiths and premium barrels. It still favored folks with machine shop access or skills, but c'est la vie.

What will you decide about KID triggers, or TTShooter triggers?

Trigger packs, CPC'd bolts, 'smith-worked barrels, and maybe even professionally bedded 10/22's...figure how to address these and I think you've got a new match devoted to 10/22s, RFC's lifeblood!



Ben
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  #7  
Old 10-21-2005, 01:07 AM
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Bucks Owin

I have to think that the Low Dough Challenge is already basically a "Home Built" match. The $300 for improvements over the base 10/22, including scope, allows anyone to allocate the funds anyway they want to and if you're buying everything and having the work done it won't go far and probably won't be an "Ultimate" as far as being competetive. The dollar limit almost forces you to do at least some of the work yourself. Now there are some high dollar guns in the Semi Auto match but a well built Low Dough or home built can give them a run for the money.

There was seamingly a lot of interest generated when gmcfixer suggested the Low Dough Challenge but not much participation once the match started. Perhaps if the Low Dough actually moved to the On Line Matches with increased visibility then participation might improve.

On the other hand the Semi-Auto match is also a great forum to showcase your home building skills. Current participation in the Semi-Auto is a little better but nowhere near what I expect from the hundreds and hundreds of 10/22 Ultimates that are supposed to shoot flies off the targets at 100 yds on a regular basis.

The real challenge seems to be to encourage more shooters to come and join the fun. I recently offered free targets in the Ultimate forum to anyone who would shoot and post a score in the Semi-Auto match. I sent out 21 sets of targets and only 9 people posted scores, Joe Haller even sent out some scoring gauges. Thats allright with me as the feedback from the ones that did shoot for the first time was very positive, they seemed to have a good time. So how do we swell the e-mail match ranks? Free targets and scoring gauges was only partially successful. I don't know. If you want to try with a new match then more power to you, I'll try and shoot it.

Good luck.

sawdust

Last edited by sawdust; 10-21-2005 at 01:12 AM.
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  #8  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:37 AM
Bucks Owin

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Additional thoughts re: targets

Gang,

Thanks for your thoughts, questions and concerns. Let's let the poll run a few days and get some more. My personal leaning is to throw the door wide open to 10/22s, the most popular rifle here. (And the one I shoot! ) There are those of us who do all of the work ourselves and there are others who don't feel comfortable with some areas and would rather farm out the installation to a gunsmith or one of his nuttier gun nut pals. Whatever. If it started with a Ruger serial numbered reciever, it's in. But like I said, let's sit on it for awhile and see what evolves.

My thoughts on targets were initially best group @ 25 yds and best downloadable BR target @ 25 yds. If the interest is sufficient, add both events @ 50 yds too. But there are plenty of challenging targets of other styles that might be included. "Black Death Challenge" just for an example. Let's hear some suggestions for suitable target formats and I'll poll them to see what the majority wants to shoot each month. It could be that each month has a different target. In fact maybe we shouldn't shoot Group or BR targets at all since there are already matches for that. At any rate I think the target of the month could be voted by poll as long as only 10/22s can enter.

Keep the ball rolling friends,

Dennis

BTW, maybe to further level the playing field, we'll go back to basics. Sandbags on a rest. Bench, log, hood, whatever. That can be the "low dollar" limiter. If you normally shoot with $500 worth of rests, leave 'em at home. Sandbags and your trigger finger, period.

Last edited by Bucks Owin; 10-21-2005 at 03:20 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-21-2005, 06:49 AM
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Bucks, now!!, I'm getting interested.. I have always thought down loading targets is a great idia. Folks can get there feet wet without any comitments. Jeff and I started shooting the E Brooks USBR (our first scores were, BAD). After a while I sent for the offical USBR targets.IMHO, This idea has merit..
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  #10  
Old 10-21-2005, 08:26 AM
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Yup this is sounding a lot better. Although i voted no i may have changed my mind now. I like the idea of using the eric brooks practice targets as well.

The only problem i have with it is the moderators are allready doing a lot in the online matches forum and i do not think it would be fair to ask for another match. IF this match did actually happen i think that it would be better if someone that spends a lot of time on here would be willing to volunteer in running these matches. This way it causes not as much stress on the moderators.

Other than that it sounds all good

BTW: If this did end up happening, i would have not problem at all running it
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  #11  
Old 10-21-2005, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon164
I think its a great idea, 10/22's against other 10/22's, I would shoot it.

The lough dough challenge (no offense gmcfixer) excludes us who like to sink money in to our 10/22's.

I would definitely like to shoot against other Ulti owners, its a great way to check your projects progress compared to other.

I wanted to shoot matches in the past with my 10/22's but what is the use when you are shooting against the likes of 40x's, win 52's, and suhl's or working against a 300 dollar mods limit? My gun has over 700 dollars in it.
jon164,

I understand your thoughts. Let me give some folks a little background into the idea behind the Low Dough challenge. A while back a number of folks some of which don't venture around RFC anymore started crying about this guy only can shoot that well because he has the best equipment. It got old quite fast and for years I've said "You might shoot better with a better gun, but a better gun doesn't make you a better shooter." Well then the idea for the low dough challenge came into being, a match where most all the rifle had mods that wouldn't give somebody an major advantage, low cost rifles, no $300+ barrels, no KIDD triggers. I also thought it would be a good way to promote building your own gun. The rules don't say that you can not have work done by a gunsmith, just that if you do it comes out of the budget for building the rifle.

Now as far as Dennis's thoughts on a build your own 10/22 match they do have good points. Yes in the low dough challenge there is a cost limitation on building the rifle but he is talking more of an unlimited 10/22 match where its not built from a custom gun but a Ruger (correct me if I misread it) and that is the spirit of it when he says a gunsmith can install parts.

Also sawdust mentioned moving the low dough challenge to on-line matches. Its been kept in the open forum to try to promote more shooters figuring it would have exposure to more shooters there and not just those who shoot the matches. Well it hasn't done much in that respect. So maybe moving the low dough challenge would be a good idea, I'm not sure as of yet. But here is a thought that I think the experts in on-line matches could ponder on (Ben and Joe I'm talking about you guys ..... Alaska Mike and others too), Open a new catagory for 10/22s, low dough guns, unlimited Rugers (to fit Dennis's Buck Owin's idea) and maybe an open class which you can use any 10/22. Problem I see is now you'll have caliber breakdowns ..... there is a reason I specified 22lr only in the low dough challenge. Having all calibers maybe allowed in the open class?

Just something to ponder on guys ........ let me know what you think on moving the low dough challenge to on-line matches too.

Dave Z.
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  #12  
Old 10-21-2005, 09:15 AM
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Back to Ben B.'s post.

I also think the rules will determine the success or failure of a Home Built match. I would like to advance a few thoughts to maybe get that discussion started. First off I think that any home gun smithing is only minumally effective as far as accuracy if you don't have at least a Bentz chambered barrel. Almost any aftermarket barrel with a Bentz chamber will out shoot the Sporter chambered 10/22 factory barrel. So to keep the playing field level and affordable and encourage improvements to the stock 10/22 I suggest that an aftermarket barrel be the ONLY aftermarket part allowed.

Modifying the factory barrel should also be an option and would fit well within the spirit of Home Made, in fact that should be encouraged as long as its done at home or within the cost of an aftermarket barrel.

As far as anything else like triggers, bolt buffers, bolts or stocks, they have to be home made or modified original parts. Period.

The idea of using downloaded targets seems like a must do as ordering the USBR targets has been a barrier for some people. I would suggest that using the NRA scoring gauge be encouraged, even with light weight paper, just to keep things even.

Just some thoughts.

sawdust

Last edited by sawdust; 10-21-2005 at 09:50 AM.
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  #13  
Old 10-21-2005, 09:33 AM
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There are already 3 matches that Modified 10/22's can shoot in. Low Dough, Semi Auto, and Unlimited. Low Dough is for 10/22's ONLY, Semi auto is DOMINATED by 10/22's and probably half the field or more in unlimited are 10/22's. I think it will really hurt the existing Semi Auto class as it will take shooter's away. I don't feel it is neccessary and will vote against it.

If you think it is tough shooting a highly modified 10/22 against the Semi Auto class you ought to try shooting a box stock rifle against them like I am. Besides I get a kick out of beating supposed "Trick" guns. Shooting a skinny barreled sporter against all those heavy barrel guns. We have enough classes lets just get those rules refined and pick a gun and go shoot.

As for the being a 10/22 forum it has not been that for a long time! I know it is frustrating to shoot against the the gunsmith built M52 and such but I have not seen a semi auto M52 in a long time. Look at the Semi auto entry list. What do you see? 1 or 2 T/C's (all are really sporters moving up a class) maybe 1 cz511....maybe. All the rest ARE 10/22 or 10/22 derivitives.

Lets not look for a way to win by creating new classes
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Last edited by Vincent; 10-21-2005 at 09:56 AM.
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2005, 10:13 AM
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Vincent has a good point, the semi auto would be hurt. The semi is 98% 10-22 s. I think the more inclusive the more sucsesful the match will be. I feel now that I voted to soon. I should have waited to hear more ideas. how about combineing Bucks idea with the semi and see how 10-22s stack up against other semi's on different targets and yardage. Bernie...
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  #15  
Old 10-21-2005, 01:27 PM
Bucks Owin

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent
Lets not look for a way to win by creating new classes
Now where'd THAT come from? As I said in the beginning post when I volunteered to run this match, I would not be qualified to shoot it. (Now we can all see why)

At any rate, it appears that my idea isn't going to fly from the looks of the poll, but let's wait awhile and see. One thing I DO NOT want to do is step on anyone's toes who is already putting in the effort of running the present matches which I enjoy shooting as much as the rest of you.

Dennis

Maybe a better idea is a "10/22 Fun Match" with a selection of 3 or 4 targets to choose from each month and chosen by poll? Also, a prize of some kind (I'd supply the first) for each match. And as I also said before, it'll be sandbags only. Shooting off bags is tougher than shooting from $500 worth of BR aids and I feel will help equalize everyone....

Last edited by Bucks Owin; 10-21-2005 at 01:41 PM.
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