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  #1  
Old 04-18-2020, 08:37 PM
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Might be time for a scope



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I shot a 2 AQT's this morning and my performance was not what I was expecting. Stages 1,2,3 and went well but stage 4 was abysmal. I printed a black and white target and have a difficult time picking out the stage 4 silhouettes. I was shooting in the morning into the rising sun and noticed that my sights had alot of sun reflection. I am using Tech Sights and the finish has worn on the wings. That is not enough of an excuse to to justify the scores. I will try again before I go to the scope but it might just be time.

Mals
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Old 04-18-2020, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mals9 View Post
I shot a 2 AQT's this morning and my performance was not what I was expecting. Stages 1,2,3 and went well but stage 4 was abysmal. I printed a black and white target and have a difficult time picking out the stage 4 silhouettes. I was shooting in the morning into the rising sun and noticed that my sights had alot of sun reflection. I am using Tech Sights and the finish has worn on the wings. That is not enough of an excuse to to justify the scores. I will try again before I go to the scope but it might just be time.

Mals
Before I went to scopes, I tried new glasses and optical inserts in the hooded sights of my service rifles, etc. This extended my iron sight shooting a few years, but eventually it was time for scopes. Once I went to scopes, I haven't looked back. The good thing, I developed my shooting skill with irons. Once you get used to a scope, (there is a little learning curve), you'll likely be glad that you did.

I've been in Appleseed for ten years, I slowly started shooting with a scope in 2016, irons only before that. Never failed to score a Rifleman score after the first Appleseed I attended.
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Old 04-19-2020, 12:58 PM
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If you think it might be time for a scope, it's time for a scope.
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  #4  
Old 04-19-2020, 01:45 PM
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Mals,

come on over to the dark side.

The target is larger and clearer. Before long, you'll fall in love with those two, crisp, intersecting black lines. Sight adjustments are at your very fingertips. I mean, what’s not to love?!!?

But really, when my eyesight was just not up to par I did as Pblanc advised. And shooting with a scope is a skill just like so many other aspects of BRM. Isn’t it fun to train up in a new skill? It has been for me.
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  #5  
Old 04-19-2020, 08:10 PM
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I know I should but it is hard to admit that I can't use peeps anymore. Getting old is not for the faint of heart. I'm going to give it another try before I surrender.

Mals
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Old 04-20-2020, 07:59 AM
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To be fair, facing into the sun is hard for anybody to try and see their sights with. You said that this particular session was difficult... do you shoot ok when the sun isn't staring right at you?
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  #7  
Old 04-20-2020, 08:21 AM
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Most are not aware, or are unwilling to admit that the vision deteriorates at age 40.

I'm talking reading vision.

As stated, there are glasses that can help.

But.....

In my case (and many others), a scope helped on the 25M AQT, but at distance, it did not help much. Easy to muscle the rifle at 25M on the AQT.

I found, that after I fixed some fundamental flaws, I was actually able to go back with irons and do well.

Try shooting it with a scope and see if it "significantly" raises your score. If it does, awesome! You've identified the issue.

If it does not, well..... then there is something fundamentally wrong with your position or in the execution of your shot process.

R/
Chris

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Old 04-20-2020, 08:55 AM
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Also....

When NRA and CMP decided to allow scopes for service rifle competition, MANY thought the scores would rise significantly.

They did not (rise significantly).

With an exception.....

Those already shooting at the Master/High Master level did see an increase of a few points, but the highest increase was in X ring count.

Those at the Marksman to Expert level...
Some saw an increase in 600 yard slow prone scores (due to they could hold on target more repeatedly), and that's about it.

Many saw standing scores actually drop, due to the addition of all that visible wobble now, LOL

BUT....

The targets were not made smaller to account for that huge score increase all thought would happen, LOL

Fundamental position and shot execution is still paramount whether shooting irons or a scope.

Only thing missing with the scope is front sight focus (although after some time many realize it is now reticle focus).

Sight alignment still plays with the scope (See magic golden scope device post on why).

My opinion....

Scopes help people with degrading vision alot, and do make for higher 600 yard slow prone scores for THOSE THAT CAN HOLD IT.

So, unless one is about nostalgia, a scope these days in my opinion is a no brainer decision.

R/
Chris

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Last edited by navybowhunter; 04-20-2020 at 09:07 AM.
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  #9  
Old 04-20-2020, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mals9 View Post
I shot a 2 AQT's this morning and my performance was not what I was expecting. Stages 1,2,3 and went well but stage 4 was abysmal. I printed a black and white target and have a difficult time picking out the stage 4 silhouettes. I was shooting in the morning into the rising sun and noticed that my sights had alot of sun reflection. I am using Tech Sights and the finish has worn on the wings. That is not enough of an excuse to to justify the scores. I will try again before I go to the scope but it might just be time.



Mals
Recommend you read this thread.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app
Then put a scope on.

R/
Chris

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  #10  
Old 04-20-2020, 10:41 AM
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I’ll add this for the sake of conversation...

Though I wholeheartedly supported scoping up in my earlier reply to the OP, it was a teensy bit toungue-in-cheek.

I’ve scoped up my 10/22 but not my M1A. Why? Well, while it is true for me that shooting one rifle teaches me something about shooting the other - it goes both ways - my approach for one rifle is not exactly the same for the other. I’m
sure this is a truism, nevertheless...for example, shooting in the seated position is much easier for me with the M1A than the Ruger. Conversely, my kneeling position is better with the Ruger-scope combo than the M1A with irons. Offhand, those are two entirely different beasts. Of course, effective ranges...pick the right tool for the right job.

No doubt there are all kinds of factors involved - LOP, rifle weight, sight radius (when the Ruger still had ‘em), recoil, type of round, etc. In any case, Tech-Sights weren’t working for me and the Ruger, hence I scoped it. The M1A, I still enjoy shooting it with irons, and I’m pleased with the results. And yes, there is a certain kind of satisfaction knowing that I have both kinds of skills at my disposal.

Last edited by MilSurplus; 04-20-2020 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 04-21-2020, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilSurplus View Post
Iíll add this for the sake of conversation...

Though I wholeheartedly supported scoping up in my earlier reply to the OP, it was a teensy bit toungue-in-cheek.

Iíve scoped up my 10/22 but not my M1A. Why? Well, while it is true for me that shooting one rifle teaches me something about shooting the other - it goes both ways - my approach for one rifle is not exactly the same for the other. Iím
sure this is a truism, nevertheless...for example, shooting in the seated position is much easier for me with the M1A than the Ruger. Conversely, my kneeling position is better with the Ruger-scope combo than the M1A with irons. Offhand, those are two entirely different beasts. Of course, effective ranges...pick the right tool for the right job.

No doubt there are all kinds of factors involved - LOP, rifle weight, sight radius (when the Ruger still had Ďem), recoil, type of round, etc. In any case, Tech-Sights werenít working for me and the Ruger, hence I scoped it. The M1A, I still enjoy shooting it with irons, and Iím pleased with the results. And yes, there is a certain kind of satisfaction knowing that I have both kinds of skills at my disposal.
To your "both kind of skills" comment....

It is really only 1 skill, scope or irons..truly it is.

The ONLY 2 things different (not truly eliminated) between a scope and irons.... is:

Sight Alignment (see magical golden scope device to see why this is not eliminated)

Front Sight Focus:
To shoot optics well, one should intently focus on the reticle, just like they would with irons.

R/
Chris

R/
Chris

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  #12  
Old 05-07-2020, 09:21 PM
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I made it to the range today and shot 3 AQT's with the Tech Sights. It was later in the day so the sun was not directly in my face and I smoked the front sight. I shot a 201, 216, and 209. I dropped most of the points on stage 4 again. I will try a scope next time and see how it goes.

Mals
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Old 05-08-2020, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mals9 View Post
I made it to the range today and shot 3 AQT's with the Tech Sights.
Did you have an insert in the rear aperture to reduce aperture diameter?

I've a friend who passed his AS with the bare, enormous aperture. It's awfully large, far too large to give better definition of the targets.

https://www.tech-sights.com/aperture-inserts/
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Old 05-08-2020, 12:18 PM
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I too have aging eyes and had trouble seeing iron sights. I bought Eye Pal Sight Master apatures that stick on your glasses. The master set has a rifle apature and a pistol apature. With it in place I can see pistol irons again (even on my TOZ-35 with tiny sight notch). I haven't used the rifle one but I'm sure it will work as well.

With the Dot in place there is enough periferal vision around it to see your suroundings, see to load and use the bifocals.

They are about $25 and works like the high dollar shooting glasses with an iris.
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  #15  
Old 05-12-2020, 08:36 PM
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I am using the original Tech Sights, no mods. I may fill in the aperture with JB Weld and drill a smaller hole as a test.

Mals
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