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  #16  
Old 05-07-2020, 01:27 PM
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That's some great shooting Kenny. Maybe if I named my rifles they would shoot better.
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  #17  
Old 05-08-2020, 10:11 PM
kseatm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1raggedhole View Post
Those are incredible 100 yd groups! Nice shooting. I am very much an average shooter and just happy to keep 10 shots on the paper plate at that distance. I agree with you that the rifle will certainly do better. Iíll keep practicing. What target do you use at 100 yds?


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Purpose of my post was just to show that these things can shoot very well. I spent a lot of time and ammo working on shooting apertures with my guns but the work paid off eventually. Honestly, I sucked when I first started, and all the advice I was given on how to improve my scores was, while probably well intentioned, just wasn't correct. At least in my case.

Here's some things you can try if you wish, not saying any of this is gospel, so it might not work for you.
- Get targets with distinct border. A23/5 for 50 yards, A25 for 100 yards. I always ordered mine from American Target Company. Great to deal with and a nice guy. Order in bulk as you will end up shooting a pile of these things over time.
- Use good ammo. To me personally, I don't shoot a target rifle with anything but target ammo. If I just want to put holes in something, I have other guns that can do that with cheap ammo. I've had good luck with CenterX, Eley Match, and certain lots of SK RM in my Kimber. When shooting peeps, a really good lot of SK RM can easily clean an A23/5 at 50. At 100, I have too many 200/19x targets to count to even want to use the stuff. So, I use really good lots of Eley Match when shooting at 100. Not saying I don't miss the x at 100 with Eley, but I don't have so many of those "what the heck" shots as I do with lesser grade ammo. But again, any ammo is lot specific when shooting for score. So test what works best for your gun and use it when shooting.
- Work on your technique. If your gun is good, and your ammo is good, the only reason you should miss is technique or not picking up on a wind condition. The x ring on an A23 is big enough to handle some variation in ammo/wind/technique most times. At 100, even with the 1 inch x ring, a 22 bullet can land in a lot of strange places with just a tail drop on a flag. So, personally I think luck plays a huge part in any really good scores at that distance.

Finally, shooting apertures is a game into itself. It's all about sight picture. Once you figure it out, you'll amaze yourself with how well you can shoot.

Good luck. You've got a beautiful rifle and it looks like it's pretty darn accurate. But do try and get some targets designed for the sights that you're shooting. It really will help. If you wish, shoot me a pm with your address and I'll send you a few A23/5 targets. But give me a few days to respond as I don't get on here for days or weeks at a time anymore. But I will send you some if you want.

Kenny
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  #18  
Old 05-08-2020, 10:24 PM
kseatm
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Originally Posted by dbr65 View Post
Just some more of your crappy shooting with Ms. Chunky, Kenny. I did that once at 25 yards. So there!

Truly amazing!!!

Doug
You forget that I've seen you shoot some pretty darn nice targets with peeps! Still wish I hadn't let you talk that Anschutz out of my hands. That thing was the most accurate aperture rifle I've ever shot in my life! Was throwing out a bunch of old shooting stuff the other week and ran across a stack of targets I'd saved from that gun. My god it would shoot well!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMosely View Post
Kenny, as usual nice shooting. I love the 100 yd line but only have 50 at the house so only shoot it a few times a year. I have never cleaned, but had a 199/19x that drained my soul.
Anyway, went camping with the kids and got some quiet time to shoot at 100yds.
82g fully worked, all in he shooter.

808E923E-972F-4E92-958D-634253AFC4C6 by Bert Mosely, on Flickr
Nothing like walking out to pull the target and seeing that one stray shot! Talk about a let down! To show how odd I am, when I walked to the target stand, I always kept my head down and would actually not look at the target until I was pulling it from the stand. Was like a little game...that I lost more times than I won... Good hearing from you. That ammo you recommended way back when was one awesome lot of Eley! Did ok with it in lots of guns. Even won a BR match with it a couple years later.

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Originally Posted by dbr65 View Post
Actually, Kenny calls her Ms. Chunky. That post was uncharacteristic for Kenny as he is typically very modest about his shooting. (He does make it look easy!) And now that Kenny is no longer shooting competitively, I think I can share one of his secrets. He always wears shorts in matches -- says it works better than wind flags (or at least adds to them).

Doug
The shorts are for....nope, better not post what went through my head... Good getting together with you and your wife. Hope you and yours are well and you had a wonderful trip. My wife asked later that evening why we don't travel as much as you do, so I took her to Elkton. We're world travelers! Take care Doug.

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Originally Posted by pump .22s View Post
That's some great shooting Kenny. Maybe if I named my rifles they would shoot better.
I'd love to give your rifles names! Not sure you'd want to use what I might suggest. Take care James.

Kenny
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  #19  
Old 05-09-2020, 09:02 AM
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@Doug,

That's good/funny.
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  #20  
Old 05-10-2020, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by kseatm View Post
Get targets with distinct border.

Kenny
That's excellent advice from Kenny. There is a reason why Prone and 3-P Smallbore shooters have used round black targets for so long. You want contrast between the target and background to centre the target. Remember you should be focussing (optically and mentally) on the foresight. The target will be a little fuzzy, but that's OK; in position shooting the gun moves, but the target is static, so a fuzzy target is an acceptable trade-off. Our brains use the contrast in light between the pale background and the black foresight/target to judge concentricity as much as resolving the physical position.

The brightness of the gap is why position coaches today tend to recommend larger apertures than 40 years ago. The inner edge of the foresight ring looks sharp, but it's actually fuzzy from diffracted light. A larger aperture places this further from the target so the gap between looks brighter. When the foresight is really tight around the target it's possible to overlap the target without noticing, as the fuzz of diffracted light is visible. A 3.8mm would be a good starting point Prone; you might go a touch smaller from a bench as it's more stable, or with a very thin ring (Perspex insert) as a thin ring means less diffraction. Colour filters and polariser are just ways to enhance or control, the brightness in natural light.

I would also say a very small rear aperture isn't always ideal, as it concentrates the image over a very small portion of the retina. If you are reducing the aperture to sharpen the foresight, a prescription lens is a better idea. Your distance prescription* + 0.5 will give a relaxed focal distance a little ahead of the foresight, where the foresight is still sharp but the target is less fuzzy. With the lens giving focal distance, the rear aperture can be bigger and brighter. A lens holder like this, is a simple way to have the lens square and centred to your line of sight: https://www.intershoot.co.uk/acatalog/Lens-Holders.html

Last edited by tim slater; 05-10-2020 at 03:32 PM.
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  #21  
Old 05-10-2020, 02:40 PM
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Kenny has to be one of the most modest people I've ever known. Truth is, I think I can only remember one other time when I've seen a target of his.

Kenny, absolutely incredible shooting...

Bob
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  #22  
Old 05-10-2020, 07:40 PM
kseatm
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Originally Posted by tim slater View Post
That's excellent advice from Kenny. There is a reason why Prone and 3-P Smallbore shooters have used round black targets for so long. You want contrast between the target and background to centre the target. Remember you should be focussing (optically and mentally) on the foresight. The target will be a little fuzzy, but that's OK; in position shooting the gun moves, but the target is static, so a fuzzy target is an acceptable trade-off. Our brains use the contrast in light between the pale background and the black foresight/target to judge concentricity as much as resolving the physical position.

The brightness of the gap is why position coaches today tend to recommend larger apertures than 40 years ago. The inner edge of the foresight ring looks sharp, but it's actually fuzzy from diffracted light. A larger aperture places this further from the target so the gap between looks brighter. When the foresight is really tight around the target it's possible to overlap the target without noticing, as the fuzz of diffracted light is visible. A 3.8mm would be a good starting point Prone; you might go a touch smaller from a bench as it's more stable, or with a very thin ring (Perspex insert) as a thin ring means less diffraction. Colour filters and polariser are just ways to enhance or control, the brightness in natural light.

I would also say a very small rear aperture isn't always ideal, as it concentrates the image over a very small portion of the retina. If you are reducing the aperture to sharpen the foresight, a prescription lens is a better idea. Your distance prescription* + 0.5 will give a relaxed focal distance a little ahead of the foresight, where the foresight is still sharp but the target is less fuzzy. With the lens giving focal distance, the rear aperture can be bigger and brighter. A lens holder like this, is a simple way to have the lens square and centred to your line of sight: https://www.intershoot.co.uk/acatalog/Lens-Holders.html

Thanks for that Tim. When I've told people the size of the front opening I use they look at me like I'm a nut. I evidently use a much larger front setting than most, but it works well for me. And you're correct that when I shoot offhand or not from a bench, I could go down a little up front but usually leave it as is.

What it seems to allow me to do, and I don't know if I'm blowing smoke here or not...but it seems that if I want to "shade" a shot to keep it in the x, it's just easier to get a feel for where in the sight picture I want that black circle. I will admit that when things come together, it seems like you're shooting fish in a barrel. Heck, I rarely look through the spotting scope once I start for score. Just shoot and watch the conditions. Never know what score I got until it's scored.

People ask all the time what the secret is to shooting these sights. The simple answer is that if you don't miss the x, you end up scoring really well. But honestly, to me, I think too many people focus on the wrong thing. Like you mentioned, they are so worried about the target picture and not how crisp the front ring on the front sight is. My target picture is always fuzzy, but for me to shoot well, I need that front ring to be crisp and clear. I just adjust the rear sight until it looks right and then shoot. Not sure that makes sense or even if it's correct but it works for me.

That's why I like the adjustable front globes and adjustable rear sights. Plus, I like the polar and filter thingys on my rear sight as it can clear things up on a messy day.

Anyway, you know much more about all of this than I do, so any advice you can give would probably help others.

Thanks for chiming in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnttech View Post
Kenny has to be one of the most modest people I've ever known. Truth is, I think I can only remember one other time when I've seen a target of his.

Kenny, absolutely incredible shooting...

Bob
Ha, you want to see some bad targets? I've got a few...well, more than a few...

Thanks for the compliment anyway, but I really am not anything special. Just like to play around some and have a little fun.

Just saw your pm. Will answer later tonight. My wife is working me like a dog this evening. A mean mean woman...

Take care

Kenny
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