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  #1  
Old 07-25-2009, 08:38 AM
Chappers

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Different Toz 17 models and ex-cadet corp Toz 8m?



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i have been thinking of getting a Toz 17 for some time. their cheap around $150 to $200 Au for a good rifle and if they shoot just like the 8m but with a five shot magazine i would be a very happy chappy.

A came across a website that had a few Toz rifles and i notice some of the toz 17 where a bit different. im just wondering if they different models altogether or changes that happen between production runs?


http://thegunsmiths.com.au/eshop/pro...ce405d5cd8d649

http://thegunsmiths.com.au/eshop/pro...ce405d5cd8d649
As you can see the main difference are in the barrel and stock.

Also for owners that have a Toz 17 that look like the top example, is that bull barrel like the Toz 8m?

Also on the same sight they have a ex-cadet corp Toz 8m advertised, anyone know about these toz 8m ex-cadets or own one?


http://thegunsmiths.com.au/eshop/pro...ce405d5cd8d649

Cheers.

Last edited by Chappers; 07-25-2009 at 08:44 AM.
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2009, 06:45 PM
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ТОЗ-17

The following links may provide some information:
Rifle TOZ-17
Magazine Feed Small-Bore Rifle TOZ-17
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Old 07-25-2009, 07:28 PM
Chappers

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I did look at that before and the only change they state between the Toz 17 and the 17-01 is the... “Otemnogo box store”???
i thought someone could help me out the first hand knowledge and also i cant find any information on a Toz 8m as a ex-cadet corps rifle.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:35 PM
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Here is all I have on the older TOZ rifles.
There was a company that did import them to the USA during the cold war.




Thats all I have.

Swiss

Last edited by midwest swiss; 07-25-2009 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 07-26-2009, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chappers View Post
I did look at that before and the only change they state between the Toz 17 and the 17-01 is the... “Otemnogo box store”???
i thought someone could help me out the first hand knowledge and also i cant find any information on a Toz 8m as a ex-cadet corps rifle.
"Magazine" typically translates to "store" in automatic translations of Russian to English.
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:34 AM
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I found some more TOZ info.


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  #7  
Old 07-27-2009, 05:36 PM
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There are three major differences in design of TOZ-17 and TOZ-17-01.

1. Safety of the TOZ-17 is integrated in the bolt, like in Mosin 91/30, and bolt secured in the action only by the sear engagement when not closed.
TOZ-17-01 safety is part of the trigger group and blocks the trigger. Removing the safety from the bolt gave the designers an opportunity to shorten the bolt body and and allowed to install the cap on the back of the action. Even with the open bolt, accidental disengagement of the sear wouldn't result in the loss of the bolt.

2. Integrated front sight ramp and open blade sight of the TOZ-17 were replaced with dovetailed serrated ramp and hooded front pin sight on TOZ-17-01.

3. Rear sight graduated scale maximum distance of 250 meters on TOZ-17 was reduced to 100 meters on TOZ-17-01.

All of those changes were implemented in 1977.
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:40 PM
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Good Info

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Originally Posted by midwest swiss View Post
I found some more TOZ info....
Great info swiss - aom22
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:43 PM
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Russian Language Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosbear View Post
There are three major differences in design of TOZ-17 and TOZ-17-01....
Excellent information - aom22
Is this the fruit of your Russian language skills?
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  #10  
Old 07-27-2009, 08:13 PM
Chappers

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Cheers Midwest Swiss for that list of Toz models and also to Mosbear for putting in detail the differences of the Toz 17 and the Toz 17-01. (so the top pic is a Toz17-01 and the one below it is a Toz 17, BTW sorry that the pics did not work)

About this Toz 8m
Grrrr.... pic will not show, so here is the link and you can click in the pic from their
http://thegunsmiths.com.au/eshop/pro...ce405d5cd8d649
In combined services competition there is a mach for training rifles but the Toz 8m is not in this list (http://www.ssaa.org.au/competition-i...ifle-list.html) to get it on the list and to be used for competition. Anyone have some info on what countries did use these as training rifles? Because the thing that strikes me as odd about this Ex-cadet rifle that it has a brass disk in the stock and i only seen that on Swedish rifles...

Last edited by Chappers; 07-27-2009 at 08:22 PM. Reason: pic is not showing
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chappers View Post
Cheers Midwest Swiss for that list of Toz models and also to Mosbear for putting in detail the differences of the Toz 17 and the Toz 17-01. (so the top pic is a Toz17-01 and the one below it is a Toz 17, BTW sorry that the pics did not work)

About this Toz 8m
Grrrr.... pic will not show, so here is the link and you can click in the pic from their
http://thegunsmiths.com.au/eshop/pro...ce405d5cd8d649
In combined services competition there is a mach for training rifles but the Toz 8m is not in this list (http://www.ssaa.org.au/competition-i...ifle-list.html) to get it on the list and to be used for competition. Anyone have some info on what countries did use these as training rifles? Because the thing that strikes me as odd about this Ex-cadet rifle that it has a brass disk in the stock and i only seen that on Swedish rifles...
TOZ-8 was a mainstay of the rifle training for the Soviet Army. I don't have any documentation to support this, at least I didn't find anything on the internet.
Here is the link to support this claim for the TOZ-18.
This is the digitized copy of the training manual for the SpecOps of the Russian Interior Ministry.
In Russian
http://www.hpbt.org/articles/plan.htm
and translated by Google bots
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.hpbt.org/articles/plan.htm&ei=IGFuSrvyD4KwNujNgOQC&sa=X&oi=translate &resnum=5&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D1%2582%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B7%2B18%2 6hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-USfficial%26hs%3DtPx%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20
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  #12  
Old 07-28-2009, 09:38 AM
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Good Find

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosbear View Post
... This is the digitized copy of the training manual for the SpecOps of the Russian Interior Ministry....
Good find mosbear.
Excellent translation
Irrefutable reference.
П Л А Н
ЗАНЯТИЙ ПО ОГНЕВОЙ ПОДГОТОВКЕ СНАЙПЕРОВ 1-го ПЕРИОДА
ОБУЧЕНИЯ РОТЫ СпН ВВ


P L A N
WORK FOR THE PREPARATION Ognev Sniper 1 st PERIOD OF
TRAINING company SPN BB
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  #13  
Old 07-28-2009, 06:23 PM
Chappers

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the Toz 18 was used for sniper training.... this shows me one important thing the army did use Toz rimfire rifles.
I can understand the Toz 18 was used for snipers the scope and mount look like a PU setup.

So what did they used for regular army, can we find any documentation on that? or maybe later on when the army was equipped with autos when did the Mosin Nagants go and the Toz 17 or 8m used as training (that pure speculation on my part i do know that there where 22Lr Mosin Nagant single shot rifles made but in very limited number so they must of used something else also)

but if any of us know Russian we could put this to bed and ask Toz.

Sorry that Mosin Nagant single shot training rifle was used in japan.

Pic taken from 7.62x54r.net

Last edited by Chappers; 07-28-2009 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Misinformation
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