Few questions 'bout the used CM-2s ... Model #s, Serial # & Hammer Forged Barrels - Page 3 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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  #31  
Old 08-22-2008, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chattcatdaddy View Post
Maybe they had some spare parts from each rifle and made a "frankenrifle"
You might be right!!! In that case I may have to get another so I can have a "Bride of Frankenrifle" too.

bob
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  #32  
Old 08-22-2008, 08:00 AM
mr_ouija
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My CM-2 had matching numbers for the Bolt, Sights and Action but the stock was different and the buttplate was yet another number. The important matching parts were there, so I didn't really care and it shoots great!
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  #33  
Old 08-22-2008, 11:48 AM
white house
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Receiver has "Made in USSR VOSTOK YPAA M-1100"
That last "A" in YPAA is a character like "A" without the horizontal line in the middle. Lack of characters on the keyboard made me substitute "A" for /\.
Lastly, the "M-1100" is stamped cleanly into the receiver as the Model I think-not a serial number, yet the 1100 is stamped on the stock, the bolt, the buttplate, etc. However, the underside of the barrel has the US import: "CM2 .22LR TGI KNOX TN"
So this is actually a BK-3 then? Now I want to read up on this. I am truly pleased with this $299 find from cdnn.

Last edited by white house; 08-22-2008 at 11:55 AM.
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  #34  
Old 08-22-2008, 11:57 AM
white house
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Aha! My CM2 (BK3?) was imported by TGI too, KNOX TN.
Anyway, it has the 3 rear lock up lugs and the M-1100 stamped on every part including stock, buttplate, bolt, sights.
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  #35  
Old 08-22-2008, 12:53 PM
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Here is the info from the book I just received.
I am leaving town today for the weekend to visit a different country (Wisconsin) LOL
Here it is. Grab a chair its a nice read & should answer some questions
& maybe add some more. Like when did they convert to side rear sight mnts.
to top mnts.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...1/100_5447.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...1/100_5448.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...1/100_5449.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...1/100_5450.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...1/100_5451.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...1/100_5452.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...1/100_5453.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...1/100_5454.jpg

Last edited by midwest swiss; 08-22-2008 at 01:00 PM.
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  #36  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:04 PM
harris hawk
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One variable we haven't really checked, or touched on in this thread, is the barrel diameter. On my Ural it's 21mm, and 18mm on the CM2. Now that measurement is after the front sight mount, on the very end of the barrel, because some have a carbon fiber sheath encased barrel(mistaken for hammer forging). This should help narrow things down quite a bit. IMO.
Michael
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  #37  
Old 08-23-2008, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harris hawk View Post
One variable we haven't really checked, or touched on in this thread, is the barrel diameter. On my Ural it's 21mm, and 18mm on the CM2. Now that measurement is after the front sight mount, on the very end of the barrel, because some have a carbon fiber sheath encased barrel(mistaken for hammer forging). This should help narrow things down quite a bit. IMO.
Michael
OK, Mike...just did some measuring on my Ural-2. Barrel length is 26.75in. from face to muzzle or 25.25in. from rec. to muzzle. The diameter at muzzle (turned for sight) is .867in/22mm. The full diameter is .880/22.4mm. My barrel shows what I believe to be forging marks. I've seen several carbon fiber material applications and none of them are as lumpy as what I'm looking at here. The hammer forged barrels I've seen, that haven't been turned down after forging, look more like the pattern mine has. It's a spiral pattern except for where it has been turned done for the front sight sleeve. Personally, I think the carbon fiber barrel may be the misconception. Seems a little high-tech for the time period when these were supposed to have been manufactured. I put a magnet on the barrel and I can't tell the difference between the full dia. and where it's been turned. And I know that's low-tech. Short of taking a file to it to see, I'll just go with the notion that it's hammer forged for now. And the quest continues......

bob
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  #38  
Old 08-23-2008, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by motohead View Post
OK, Mike...just did some measuring on my Ural-2. Barrel length is 26.75in. from face to muzzle or 25.25in. from rec. to muzzle. The diameter at muzzle (turned for sight) is .867in/22mm. The full diameter is .880/22.4mm. My barrel shows what I believe to be forging marks. I've seen several carbon fiber material applications and none of them are as lumpy as what I'm looking at here. The hammer forged barrels I've seen, that haven't been turned down after forging, look more like the pattern mine has. It's a spiral pattern except for where it has been turned done for the front sight sleeve. Personally, I think the carbon fiber barrel may be the misconception. Seems a little high-tech for the time period when these were supposed to have been manufactured. I put a magnet on the barrel and I can't tell the difference between the full dia. and where it's been turned. And I know that's low-tech. Short of taking a file to it to see, I'll just go with the notion that it's hammer forged for now. And the quest continues......

bob
I may be wrong, but believe the sleeve(carbon fiber, or whatever material)was used on the later models. Believe me, I'm by no means an expert on these rifles. However, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. I'm like everybody else here, just trying to put all the pieces together, and make them fit. Hoping someone that is MUCH more knowledgeable than myself on these rifles will jump in here and enlighten all of us. I've been trying to put this deal together since I got my two rifles. Maybe between ALL of us together, we can figure this beast out
Michael!
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  #39  
Old 08-23-2008, 07:40 PM
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Unless I missed something in the above posting by Swiss, the only version that remotely resembles our rifles is the 6-1 Ural, and that's not our rifles either,... so as someone said earlier,... the quest continues. I wish the Russians weren't so secretive about these rifles, and that there was a DEFINITIVE source(which is probably out there, somewhere). There needs to be a site like Ted's excellent site about Mosin-Nagant rifles, http://7.62x54r.net/ , and http://www.mosinnagant.net/ . These sites list most of the variances in these type rifles. Both are excellent reference sources for these type rifles, a benchmark maybe we can strive for.
Michael

Last edited by harris hawk; 08-23-2008 at 08:26 PM.
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  #40  
Old 08-23-2008, 08:08 PM
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Hammer Forged Bull Barrel: Spiral Pattern

Quote:
Originally Posted by motohead View Post
.... My barrel shows what I believe to be forging marks. I've seen several carbon fiber material applications and none of them are as lumpy as what I'm looking at here. The hammer forged barrels I've seen, that haven't been turned down after forging, look more like the pattern mine has. It's a spiral pattern except for where it has been turned done for the front sight sleeve....
A carbon fiber warped barrel on an older rifle is highly unlikely.

Ruger Barrel

Quote:
Hammer forged bull barrel;
the finish is a sparkling spiral milling.
This is an image I located of a hammer forged barrel
that has not been turned-down.

Bye the way, the spiral marks are not as a result of milling.
They are tooling marks from the hammering process.

Hammer Forging Barrel


Reference:
"Hammer Forged Barrels" by Vern Briggs and James Higley
was published in the November, 2005 issue of Precision Shooting.

OR
Notes on Hammer Forged Barrels by Vern Briggs and James Higley




"Ural-6-2" ... Barrel and Front Sight


"Biathlon-7-3" ... Barrel, Front Sight & Barrel Weights


Larsen Recruit Rifle ... Izhmash BI 7-3 Barrel & Front Sight
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you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
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Last edited by aom22; 07-20-2014 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Additional Text
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  #41  
Old 08-23-2008, 08:31 PM
harris hawk
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aom22, Thanks for the info, sweet.
Michael
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  #42  
Old 08-23-2008, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harris hawk View Post
.... I wish the Russians weren't so secretive about these rifles,
and that there was a DEFINITIVE source(which is probably out there, somewhere)....
There is a source of information.
However, the information is in Russian.

If only ... at one of the Russian Forums an English speaking participant would interact with us.
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  #43  
Old 08-24-2008, 12:16 AM
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Very interesting reading. Thanks to all. Particularly enjoyed the hammer forging articles aom22.

Hope you don't mind me saying so here because it doesn't pertain to Russian rifles. I was looking at a used Savage 93BTVS this evening and noticed something that I hadn't before, when you shouldered the rifle and the light hit the barrel just right you could still see the hammer marks on the barrel. Looking at it sitting upright in the rack it wasn't noticeable.

Whatever these *CM-2* rifles are, I've pretty much decided I really want one. And if I may ask so here, what do you think the chances are of getting a really bad one? I know it's only $300 but that's a lot of money to me.

Tony
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  #44  
Old 08-24-2008, 12:17 AM
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I was just pointing out that I thought my barrel was hammer forged from the looks of it. Looking at the pics mine looks closest to the SM-2. So maybe there is a model with the BK-3 receiver and trigger and the rest like the CM/SM-2. But I sure don't know for sure.

bob
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  #45  
Old 08-24-2008, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyA View Post
Very interesting reading. Thanks to all. Particularly enjoyed the hammer forging articles aom22.

Hope you don't mind me saying so here because it doesn't pertain to Russian rifles. I was looking at a used Savage 93BTVS this evening and noticed something that I hadn't before, when you shouldered the rifle and the light hit the barrel just right you could still see the hammer marks on the barrel. Looking at it sitting upright in the rack it wasn't noticeable.

Whatever these *CM-2* rifles are, I've pretty much decided I really want one. And if I may ask so here, what do you think the chances are of getting a really bad one? I know it's only $300 but that's a lot of money to me.

Tony
I've heard of different conditions on the stocks mostly, but I've never heard of one that didn't shoot close to 1/4in @ 50yds.
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