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Old 12-28-2006, 09:45 AM
Rob62
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Lets share Savage model 3 series rifle information here



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The reason I started this thread is that I am in the process of re-finishing a basic model 3D rifle. I really like this rifle and wanted to find out as much information as I can. I know some collectors will recoil at the word re-finish. But I primarily wanted another neat old shooter and saw this rifle sitting looking very abused on a pawnshop shelve.

The outside of the barrel was pretty beat up, with a lot of surface rust. Luckily no pitting. The bore was in excellent condition. No doubt from shooting standard wax/lube coated bullets. I am a firm believer that the standard wax/lube coating on .22RF ammunition helps tremendously to preserve a bore. The barrel is 24” so I know, well at least I used to know – read below, it is a post war model. Since it was made pre ’68 there is no serial number as expected. I had the barreled action parkerized and it looks great – very vintage. The trigger guard is cheap pot metal, so could not get parkerized or blued. I plan on using a spray/bake on finish on it. The muzzle crown did not look too bad. But since I have a crown cutting tool sitting around I re-cut the crown anyway to an 11 degree target type.

The plastic butt plate that was on the rifle was broken in two pieces and I posted about looking for a replacement here. Someone who’s E mail I lost and am tremendously thankful for offered a Marlin M60 butt plate as a replacement. If the person that I received this butt plate from reads this – big THANK YOU. The butt plate only needed a little sanding down to fit, and it right at home on the rifle now.

Here is the updated information I promised. I will keep this reference updated as information comes in.

Thank you all who contribute. Especially for anyone who posts or links pictures of their rifles. I think that a picture is worth a thousand words. Overall rifle pictures and barrel stampings (markings) specially wanted.


--------SAVAGE 3 SERIES Rifle Information--------

There were several variations of the Savage model 3 rifle made. All were bolt action, single shot, .22 RF (S, L, LR). Added model designation such as “A”, “B”, “C”, etc. only denoted minor changes or additions to the rifle. None included major modifications such as a box or tube magazine. Models included the 3, 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D, 3DE, 3E, 3S, and 3ST.

There is conflicting information as to dates of manufacture. Some references show they were manufactured 1930-47, others 1933-52.

One reference that was printed in 1931, listed the M3 as "new" at that time, with a wholesale price of $3.90, retail $4.85, packed 10 and 25 in a case. Therefore it is reasonable to presume that in fact the first M3’s came off of the production line in either 1930 or ’31. However, this same reference showed M3’s with a 39" over all length, and having a 22" barrel and steel butt plate. The stock pictured is not grooved on the sides. (This might have been pre-production info).

Some 1931 dated materials show a grooved stock and list a 24" barrel. The barrel length is important in narrowing down when M3’s were manufactured. Most references printed recently show that Pre-war (WWII) models have 26" barrels, post-war 24". This is confusing, as publications from the early 1930’s do not reflect this same information, reference above.

Of considerable help in identifying dates of manufacture will be the barrel stamp as to city of manufacture (Chicopee Falls, MA and Utica, NY). Savage was back in production during 1947 at the Chicopee Falls, MA, plant. Therefore you wouldn't find a Chicopee Falls stamped barrel before 1947, but you might find a Utica stamped barrel for a little while after the move, till inventory was used up.

The below information comes directly from Savage wholesale fliers, catalogs, and parts manuals, unless otherwise identified, all printed in the years indicated.

1933, listed overall length at 41 1/2" with a 24" barrel, walnut stock w/groove on side and steel butt plate. Bolt and trigger are chrome plated. D&T'ed for the #55 Lyman rear peep sight that mounts to a receiver with 2 hole receiver spacing being 1/2" center to center.

1934, (Catalog) Same as 1933 but now 43 1/2" over all w/26" barrel.

1934, (Parts Manual) lists a 3-A & 3-B (not in 1932, 1933 not available). 3-A is a change to the bolt assembly (1/2 cocks on opening, 1/2 on close?), no parts difference listed for 3-B (something minor?)

1935, (Catalog) stock is heavier (no groove), hard rubber butt plate. D&T for Lyman # 55 rear peep sight dropped, replaced with Savage peep sight on 3-S. 3-ST listed

1936, the Savage #10 scope was available but rifle not D&T'ed.

1937, rifle now D&T'ed for telescope sight, 2 holes on left side of action. The mount used was the Weaver "T" mount (T-1 and T-3). The 2 hole spacing was 2 3/8", center to center. (The next later common mount Weaver made and may be encountered on these rifles is the "N" mount, it used four holes but the outside two holes are only 3 1/8" apart)

1938, no change

From “The Rifle in America” by Philip B. Sharpe. (NRA reprint of the 1938 version)
M3’s were introduced in 1931. Walnut stock, 26" barrel, hard-rubber plate.
Model 3, gold bead front sight, flat-top rear.
Model 3S, slot blank in rear sight dovetail, hooded front sight on ramp base (hood holds the removable sight in place). Savage receiver peep sight attached on the left side at rear. Sometime before 1938 the rear blank was replace with a fold down Savage rear sight.
Model 3ST, same as the 3S plus a 7/8" sling strap, sling studs and swivels.
The above three variations were still in production in 1938.
In 1938 the Model 3 with basic iron sights was available with the Savage #10 scope (Weaver 329) in Weaver mounts (Presumably this would have been the "T" series as in 3T. However it is not clear in the way it is listed.)
The later parts manual shows only the "3" as the first variation. The later rifle (post WWII?) lists the 3C, 3D, 3DE, 3E, 53C, 53CD, 53D and the Model 83. Whenever a change was made Savage would bump the letter call out on the model.

1939, pictured with the bent metal guard, 1940 has the cast metal guard. 3-ST no longer listed.

From Stoeger Arms Corporation catalog of 1939 (Models 3, 3S, and 3ST shown) - 26" barrel, Chrome plated bolt and trigger, walnut stock with finger grooves and steel butt plate, receiver D&Td for #55 Lyman rear peep sight. Pictured rifle shows cocking knob on bolt. Prices shown M3 - $5.65, M3S - $6.40, M3ST - $8.40.

1940, no change noted

1941, no change noted

1946, Savage Catalog #76, 24" barrel, high luster finish on bolt and trigger, walnut stock with fluted comb - large broad forestock, hard composition butt plate, pictured with the cast trigger guard. Model 3 listed price $11.60, Model 3S still shown and described in catalog - however shown in price list as not being available in 1946.

Production was around 9000 units per year in 1933-1939 (Savage sales records...this is the only years data available on so far)

Basic rifle information: .22RF (S, L, LR) Bolt Action Single Shot. (Note - all these models may in fact not be in existence. Reference to some was found on the internet, as such it is subject to question):

Model 3, open iron sights. Stamped metal trigger guard. Walnut stock. Bolt has a cocking knob/safety. There is a report that at least one of these rifles came with a 22" factory barrel. At least one specimen known not to have had its receiver D&Ted for a scope base or receiver peep sight (same specimen as the one reported with a 22" factory barrel).

Model 3A, open iron sights. Stamped metal trigger guard. Finger groove in forend of walnut stock.

Model 3B - open iron sights, blued bead front, 24” or 26" barrel, bolt has a cocking knob/safety, chrome plated smooth-handled bolt and trigger, finger groove in fore end of walnut stock - there is also a report that some stocks did not have the finger groove in the forend, no sling attachments, metal butt plate with factory horizontal grooves cut in it - also reported to come with a hard rubber/plastic butt plate, stamped metal trigger guard, slot for bolt; is straight with an arrow stamped in the bolt pointing to the cocking knob, no safety, left rear of receiver drilled and tapped w/ 2 holes, known to have been manufactured prior to mid 1944 - unknown when production stopped.

Model 3C - open iron sights, gold bead front, 26" barrel, chrome plated smooth-handled bolt and trigger, cast "pot metal" trigger guard, no finger groove in forend of walnut stock, hard rubber/plastic butt plate, left front of receiver drilled and tapped with 2 holes, 2 3/8" hole spacing center to center for the Weaver "T" mount, does not have a cocking knob.

Model 3D, open iron sights, gold bead front, 24" barrel, cast "pot metal" trigger guard, no finger groove in forend of walnut stock, left rear of receiver drilled and tapped w/ 2 holes, 7/8" hole spacing center to center for the Savage #150 peep sight, chrome plated bolt and trigger, bolt handle is smooth - not knurled, does not have a cocking knob, known to have still been in production as late as early 1947. (At least 2 known specimens of model 3Ds are known to be in this exact configuration.)

Model 3DE - ?

Model 3E - ?

Model 3S, slot blank in rear sight dovetail, hooded front sight on ramp base (hood holds the removable sight in place), Savage receiver peep sight attached on the left side at rear, sometime before 1938 the rear blank was replaced with a fold down Savage rear sight.

Model 3ST, same as the 3S plus a 7/8" sling strap, sling studs and swivels.



---------------------End of general info---------------------------------------------


Numrich Arms lists a rear peep sight for the model 3:
http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.as...SKU=542060&MC=





And below is my 3D next to my much enjoyed Remington 510


Last edited by Rob62; 02-04-2010 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Updated information
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Old 12-28-2006, 10:52 PM
eidsvolling

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Thanks for starting this thread! Left one out of the list -- the 3b. It's very close to your 3d, can't see any obvious differences in your pictures. But the original butt plate on my 3b was metal, not plastic. I think that there was a 3a as well. Somebody here will undoubtedly fill in our knowledge gaps pretty soon.

The gun was handed down to me by my late father. I use it for small game and plinking. He didn't shoot a lot with it. It laid unfired for probably 35+ years and was not stored very well during most of that time. The barrel is nevertheless in very good condition, and it shoots nicely. I sanded and restained the stock, cleaned up the barrel, and started testing ammo types. I have about 125 rounds through it, and it's been a lot of fun, in addition to the sentimental aspect.

Last edited by eidsvolling; 12-28-2006 at 10:55 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-29-2006, 07:31 AM
Rob62
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eidsvolling - can you post a pic of your rifle? Or a link to one? I would specially like to see the butt plate. Never having seen any Savage 3's other than the one I own, I presumed all would have had plastic butt plates originally.

Now I wonder if the broken one that was on my gun was a replacement. In the big picture it really does not matter to me. And may never find out unless a lot more people respond to this thread. As my rifle is strictly a shooter, any collector value that it had was lessened my the parkerization and what I did not mention, the re-cutting of the muzzle crown.


BTW - my rifle shoots GREAT. Very informal testing from a wobbly bench at 25yds printed about a 1" - 5 shot groups with generic Remington HV bulk box ammo. Interestingly, I do not have a rear sight elevator for this rifle. Something it did not come with. So the rifle was shot without one with the rear sight at its lowest possible setting. Shooting this way it printed almost perfectly dead on using the center of the bead as a aiming point. Since I usually use the top of the bead as the aiming point / re: sight alignnment on target, I will need a replacement elevator sometime in the future.


Would love to find out if someone out there had one of these rifles before 1933 thereby establishing the fact that they were probably started in production as early as 1930..

Also would really like to see more pics of different guns. I will try to post some more of my gun focusing on the receiver and barrel markings.

Happy New Year,

Rob
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Old 12-29-2006, 09:28 AM
eidsvolling

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I can try to get a picture or two up in the next few days. (I have an older digital camera that can't connect directly to a USB cable. There's a work around, but it takes me a couple days to get access to equipment that I need.)

Unfortunately I don't have the original butt plate either. It was metal, I recall that distinctly. For some reason my dad kept the plate, the trigger guard, and the take down screw in a jar, with the barrel, action, and stock in an old canvas rifle case. The jar was lost when my parents moved. I've had to fabricate a trigger guard and butt plate, plus use a substitute take down screw. It's not pretty, but as you said about yours, it shoots great! I shoot it almost entirely offhand, to get ready for snowshoe hare, but the groups are pretty impressive considering the position and my relative lack of experience.

I have a parts diagram floating around here. If I find it I can scan it and put it up sometime later today.
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Old 12-29-2006, 03:18 PM
FourBird
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Hi Guys,

Add a 3A to the list. I acquired mine last year for $10 as it is missing the bolt. It is similiar to the 3D pictured above, but has finger grooves in the forearm.

The stock is not made of walnut, but unsure what it is. The barrel length is 24 ". The trigger guard is made of steel like the Remington 510.

Could you measure the diameter of your bolts, along with the bolt body and from the muzzle end back to the bolt handle block?

Thanks,

Lyle (WA)
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Old 12-29-2006, 09:44 PM
Rob62
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Lyle, Thanks for the info about the 3A.

I am on the road right now but should be able to take the measurements you requested and post them within a few days.

I will also take some more pictures of my rifle taken apart and post those as well. If you can post some pics of your rifle it would be much appreciated.

Probably the best way to reference and ID these rifles and various variations will be to post pics if possible.

Happy New Year,

Rob
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:35 PM
Hank McMauser

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model 3 model 4

I have a jc higgins( savage model 4) that is nearly the same, although mine has a detach magazine (5 shot)it also has the peep sights. I picked it up in a trade for next to nothing,it shoots like a house on fire!
Hank
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:47 PM
Mark Phelps
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Rob62,

I'd love to see a photo of the bolt (removed from receiver) if possible. I have an early model Stevens that I'd love to compare with it.
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Old 12-30-2006, 02:23 AM
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From Sharpes book of 1938...

Introduced in 1931. Walnut stock, 26" barrel, hard-rubber plate.
Model 3, gold bead front sight, flat-top rear.
Model 3S, slot blank in rear sight dovetail, hooded front sight on ramp base (hood holds the removeable sight in place), Savage receiver peep sight attached on the left side at rear. Sometime before 1938 the rear blank was replace with a fold down Savage rear sight.
Model 3ST, same as the 3S plus a 7/8" sling strap, sling studs and swivels.
All three wee still in production in 1938.

In 1938 the Model 3 (basic sights) was available with the Savage #10 scope (Weaver 329) in Weaver mounts (I think this would have been the "T" series). I think this was the 3T. It is not clear in the way it is listed.

The later parts manual shows only the "3" as the first variation. The later rifle (post WWII?) lists the 3C, 3D, 3DE, 3E, 53C, 53CD, 53D and the Model 83. Whenever a change was made Savage would bump the letter call out on the model.
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Old 12-30-2006, 07:58 AM
Rob62
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Sav99age - that's a lot of good information . I don't want to sound totally unknowledgeable but what is "Sharpes book of 1938"?

Some type of reference I am sure, but have not heard of it. In any event, if that source lists 1931 as the introduction date then we are now talking about 3 gun reference books that show 3 different dates when production began; 1930, 1933, and now 1931.

I wonder with a date 70+ years ago, if there is any 100% confirmed way to know when Savage started producing these rifles. Though I am pretty sure we can safely say that production was started in the early 1930's . But somehow that just does not seem good enough.

What I plan on doing is taking the information that everyone posts and rolling it up into one post. I am going to do this within the next few days at the latest, then add info as it comes in. It will be the original post to this thread. Or if and when I can not edit that post any more, I will make a new post with everything wrapped up.

I hope no one will be offended but will slightly change the verbiage to show the information "I" or "me" neutral. Thereby creating what I believe will be a more general and speciffic reference for all. I will also probably post this request for info on another web site or two. There is a Savage Arms collectors bulleting board, and should get more info there as well. Be asured that this thread will be the master and I will keep this one updated as any and all information comes in.

Thanks everyone for contributing information . I think this is going to be fun and educational. At least that is the intend.

Seasons Greetings and Happy New Year,

Rob
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Old 12-30-2006, 03:36 PM
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The book is The Rifle in America by Philip B. Sharpe. My copy is the NRA reprint of the 1938 version. There were later updated versions printed after WWII, as well. No reference bok is 100% correct and I have found errors in this one.

I looked in my Savage Wholesale fliers (also, catalogs and parts manuals) and found the following:

1930, no Model 3

1931, Model 3 listed as "new", wholesale price of $3.90, retail $4.85, packed 10 and 25 in a case. Note: it is listed as 39" over all and has a 22" barrel and steel butt plate. Stock pictured is not grooved on the sides. (This might have been pre-production info). The 1931 catalog shows a grooved stock and lists a 24" barrel.

1932 same as 1931 but states "1932 design" (?)

1933, now listed at 41 1/2" over all with a 24" barrel, walnut stock w/groove on side and steel butt plate. Bolt and trigger are chrome plated. D&T'ed for the 55 Lyman rear peep.

1934 (catalog) Same as 1933 but now 43 1/2" over all w/26" brl.
1934 (Parts Manual) lists a 3-A & 3-B (not in 1932, 1933 not avil). 3-A is a change to the bolt assembly (1/2 cocks on opening, 1/2 on close?), no parts difference listed for 3-B (something minor?)

1935 (catalog) stock is heavier (no groove), hard-rubber plate. D&T for Lyman 55 dropped, replaces with Savage peep sight on 3-S. 3-ST listed

1936 the Savage #10 scope was availbe but rifle not D&T'ed.

1937 rifle now D&T'ed for telescope sight (this would be for the Weaver "T" mount, 2 holes on left side of action).

1938 no change

1939 pictured with the bent metal guard, 1940 has the cast metal guard.
3-ST no longer listed.

1940 no change noted

1941 no change noted

Production was around 9000 units per year in 1933-1939 (Savage sales records...this is the only years I have data on)

I'm a 99 collector/student and have spent many hours and $$$'s collecting information. Even with all the paperwork in print there are still a lot of unknowns about the Savage products. The early 1930's were hard times and items cataloged were not always produced as planned. It is easier with the 99's since they have a serial number that time dates the rifle and the way it was produced. With the unserialed firearms it is not so easy. You can only guess as to when the item was produced by the sum of its parts and the barrel markings. This will get you pretty well started for the pre-WWII years. The rest will be up to you. The hunt for information can be as interesting as the rifles. It appears you will have a rack full if you can find one of each variation. Good hunting.
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:12 PM
eidsvolling

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My 3b bolt diameter is 9/16", the length overall (to back side of the thumb piece) is 5" dead on, and the distance from muzzle end to front edge of bolt handle block is 1 1/16" (i.e., 17/16".) Barrel is 24". The stock is walnut and grooved in the forend. It would sure be nice if it had a gold bead, but it doesn't! Ramp sight in rear with a plain Jane blued bead in front, just like Rob62's 3d pictured above.

I think that I'm going to retract my assertion about the original butt plate being metal for the time being. It's been almost thirty years since I saw it.

Thanks to all who have contributed info. I'm still working on posting the parts diagram and photos.
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Old 12-31-2006, 11:19 AM
Tilton Hilton

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Thought I'd add a description of a single shot I have, the barrel is roll stamped Springfield Model 53-B and the left rear of the receiver is stamped Wards Western Field.

It has a overall length of 41" and the barrel is 24". Beavertail walnut stock with smooth metal buttplate. Chrome bolt and trigger, bolt has a knurled cocking knob.

Has a ramp front sight with a removal post that is held in the ramp by the hood. Rear barrel sight is dovetailed, buckhorn style and adjustable for both windage and elevation. Left rear side of receiver is cut for aperature sight. Left side of receiver is drilled and tapped for side scope mount(looks factory, has filler screws).

Left side of barrel where it meets the receiver has a circle with number 24 inside. Underside of both the barrel and receiver are stamped with the number 270.

Also has sling swivals that measure 1 1/4".

Happy New Year, Jim
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Old 12-31-2006, 11:37 AM
Rob62
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Ok guys. The original post is updated as promised. THANK YOU all once again for posting information. As you will see I took liberties re-wording some of the information submitted by others. I hope this doesn't offend anyone.

Also posted are more pics. and measurements for the bolt that Mark asked for (look at pic that is linked). Now it seems I am having problems posting pictures. For some reason only the link will show up and not the actual picture on this page. I followed the link and it will take one to the actual picture though.

FourBird (Lyle) your 3A variation sounds very unique and interesting. Are you sure the stock is not walnut? Could it possibly not be the original, i.e. custom stock? I would think that most of these rifles would never have had a stock replaced as the guns were so inexpensive and as far as I know no one makes a replacement for them. Also very interesting is the fact that you have stamped trigegr guard like the Remington 510 I have shown above. The trigger guard and the finger grooved stock, if original, plus the 3A model designation would indicate to me it is a very early produced rifle. But the 24" barrel by all modern references indicated a post WWII manufacture. VERY interesting.

eidsvolling what is the barrel length on your 3B ? Also can you add information such as is the bolt and trigger chrome plated? Any other speciffics about your gun would be welcomed as well.





Rob

The locking block I referenced in the measurement picture is I think more accurately called the locking lug. It is the rectangular piece of metal the bolt handle is attached to. The measurement given is from the face of the bolt to the very front of this piece.









Last edited by Rob62; 12-31-2006 at 04:04 PM. Reason: added info and syntax changed
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Old 12-31-2006, 11:42 AM
Rob62
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Another attemp at getting my pic to show.



The locking block I referenced in the measurement picture is I think more accurately called the locking lug. It is the rectangular piece of metal the bolt handle is attached to. The measurement given is to the very front of this piece.

Last edited by Rob62; 12-31-2006 at 11:46 AM.
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