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Big difference in accuracy at 35 to 50 yrds

8K views 77 replies 25 participants last post by  squirrel1 
#1 ·
I just recently got my first 17hm2, a Savage Mark ii FV and took it to a local indoor range. At 35 yrds it put 5 rounds into one hole but at 50 yrds it was about a 1 1/2" spread. I am not quite sure what's going on here as it was the same with both the CCI and Hornaday ammo and all shots were with rest.

Any thoughts on what might be going on here? Gave the gun a good cleaning and am planning on taking it back to give it another go this weekend before trading it and just sticking with .22 LR.
 
#4 ·
Im speculating, but i would chech and see exactly where the air exchange at your indoor range is positioned. They have some pretty stiff air pressure on some of those exchangers. Enough maybe to goof up your groups. Those are little bullets and wind plays havoc with them.
 
#7 ·
Sell the Savage and buy a different .17M2 .
I had a Savage in M2 , put it in a Boyds Pro Varmint stock. And did everything I could to try and get that rifle to shoot .
I wasted over 1000 rounds of M2 hoping it would get better .
Never did .
It would shoot minute of squirrel out to around 40 yards , but that was it . Five shots , none touching in a group the size of a quarter .
I bought a Whistlepig M2 barrel for my CZ 455 and , although it’s no target rifle because of the ammo that’s available, it’ll hold dime groups at fifty yards from the first box of ammo .
 
#8 ·
Sell the Savage and buy a different .17M2 .
I had a Savage in M2 , put it in a Boyds Pro Varmint stock. And did everything I could to try and get that rifle to shoot .
I wasted over 1000 rounds of M2 hoping it would get better .
Never did .
It would shoot minute of squirrel out to around 40 yards , but that was it . Five shots , none touching in a group the size of a quarter .
I bought a Whistlepig M2 barrel for my CZ 455 and , although it's no target rifle because of the ammo that's available, it'll hold dime groups at fifty yards from the first box of ammo .
had the same problem with the same gun....it wasnt my first rodeo with 17hm2 and rather than try and diagnose it i sold the rifle and moved on. Ive had 4 other 17hm2s that were all very accurate (no savage tho)
 
#9 ·
I have an older Savage Mk II GLV in 17m2 that is very accurate out to 100 yards. It is also common for the 17m2 to not shoot well with a super clean barrel.

It also could be a big variance between boxes/lots of ammo.

And yes wind (even from the AC unit) can and will mess with the tiny 17 grain bullets.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Don't give up on it yet. My Mark 2 FV 17HM2 did not shoot very good to start, at least not up to standards that would make me happy. I was looking for dime sized groups at 50 yards. It shot about quarter size. After my first range session I took it home gave it a good cleaning. A couple of trips to the range with cleaning in between and it settled down and will shoot groups that make me happy. I bought mine for squirrel hunting and am satisfied with it now.
 
#12 ·
EelNoob, Strange! Something may be grabbing your bullets, see Toomany22's post.
I'm going to assume nothing is grabbing them, ( but that is possible)that way we can cover other bases as well. Anyhow, my thoughts. You say one hole at 35. Those are little bullets and to me one hole at 35 would be shooting into the .2's, probably low 2's. Assuming 5 shots. If your 35 yard target was just a projection and made of no real substance for your bullet to encounter and traveled on to a 50 yard physical target. I think you would see those dime sized groups at 50. ( clear as mud?) I don't think cleaning or shooting in, is an issue as you wouldn't be shooting into the 2's at 35. Is your 35 and 50 yard target on the same level? You didn't say what you were using as a rest. Do you have to put anything under the forend or buttstock to change the elevation for the longer distance. A piece of foam or something similar can hurt you there. Are you simply sliding the gun forward or back this can change forearm pressure big time on some guns not to mention that you can be burying a sling stud into your bag that you weren't doing earlier. Are you leaving the magnification ring alone between distances. Just a few things that I have seen. Anyhow, I don't think you have a gun or ammo problem if you are shooting 5 shots into the 2's at 35, just my experience with it!
 
#14 · (Edited)
I'm still reading about what to expect with the 17hm2.
Found KOD's results at 50 yards...

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11811763&postcount=1

I'm going to say that 1.5 inch spread at 50 yards isn't a surprise.
Those are two very solid rifles being tested in that linked thread.
Group drift is evident as are outliers and strays caused by ammo quality (lack of).
Some groups are sub-moa, some ain't. I don't think it's the rifle or the nut holding the trigger.
Simply the result of assembly differences on the CCI cartridge production line.

I'd like to see one-shot one dot target results with the 17hm2.
25 shots on each target to build the 50 shot aggregate group.
Anybody willing to attempt it? I'll build the aggregate.

I think I can build 50 shot aggregates from KOD's results.
 
#16 ·
jaia, Next not so breezy day I will shoot you a group. It is not hard to get 5 shot groups into the 3's. at 50, all day long is going to ruin them though. It isn't hard to get a big time flier with most ammo either. I have a picture of my chrono screen showing the last nine mach2 shots I ever fired across it. It was from a batch that shot so poorly I ran them across. Highest velocity, 2164, lowest velocity, 1870, Extreme spread 294, Std. DEV. 93.9 . yeah that will tear things up. Most lots of ammo are not too good and a good lot will give you about 90% good ammo. I don't run them across the chrono anymore I just shoot them for accuracy. I bought three bricks of mach2 about three weeks ago and all three were different lot numbers. I test fired some from each brick. None of the three lots will work for me. I had a buddy over and two of the lots did well in his gun and he bought one. I wasn't seeing the high and low impacts on the targets, just simply not grouping well enough to make a 100 yard squirrel gun out of my gun. In my opinion a 1.5 inch spread is a big surprise out of a lot that is shooting into the 2's at 35. Something else afoot there!
 
#18 ·
jaia, I misunderstood originally, I thought you meant a single 25 shot group. My gun is just a 504 that didn't shoot very well with the original barrel so I put a Lilja heavier barrel on it. Since I am done squirrel hunting for the year I will pull the scope off of it that has the 3/8" dot and put one with a fine crosshair on it. Been shooting rimfires for over 50 years it's mostly always been about the ammo. I like the mach2 . It gives one a nice long range squirrel rifle. Most ammo lots wont work for me at long range though and I test about 4 lots to find a good one lately and about 6 lots to find a real good one. Some may think that a real good one would show 100 % good ammo. No, that would be better than any I have ever shot. I don't expect that out of any lot. Top that off with the fact that a box or two or three in a lot may cause you to think it is a keeper and then other boxes in the same lot will disappoint you. Ah, rimfire ammo. I know that CCI and Hornady should be the same ( don't know why they wouldn't be) and Maybe the lots I have shot were all bad but CCI won't shoot as good as Hornady for me. Maybe just one of those coincidences where every lot of CCI was a bad one for me, I don't know, but I don't buy them anymore. I don't have a very deep relationship with the .17 HMR but a lot of them have been brought over here and they can be very accurate but it is just my general opinion that they seem to have a lot of fliers and low hits on the targets, real low, more so than the mach2. Small sample but it has been noticeable. I doubt if any of the shooters ever try to find a good lot that could be some of it. I will have my wife print some targets off, thanks!
 
#19 · (Edited)
Overlay the original image
Those Avery stick-on rings are 0.5 inch diameter



Remove the image leaving just the 0.5" reference circles and the 0.17" diameter holes



Then build the 50 shot aggregate by matching the 0.5" reference circles



Vertical is mv spread...so about 1.4 moa at 50 yards,
expect a similar 50 shot group to spread to about 2.7 inches at 100 yards.
About the equivalent of a half-decent midgrade 22lr.
 
#22 · (Edited)
jaia, I got one target in while it was fairly calm . I shot it using the scope with the 3/8" dot and not my best lot of ammo but a good one. I will post the picture when the wife gets home. I wasn't worried about sighting it in as it wasn't necessary for your needs. It isn't anything to write home about , but it is what it is and I think it is indictive of a lot of mach2 ammo, at least in my experience. Generally you will get some low strikes and that is what happened on this target. I have seen a lot worse on low strikes, just low velocity rounds! I got the scopes switched over but the wind didn't allow me another target. I will shoot it when I can.
 
#26 ·
darn jaia, That is almost embarrassing. I got the scope switched over yesterday and shot a target with my best lot while it was calm this morning. Calm but cold. I sighted it in a little better to at least make it look presentable. It is a good target for a hm2 and a good lot of ammo. Absence of low strikes, which kind of surprised me even from this lot, I generally will get one if I fire that many rounds. If anything it was tending more toward high. I think the first target is what to expect from most HM2 ammo and that is why I shot it . As far as what I have come to expect I have to accept it as a good lot Most lots will probably have more vertical in them. I think the target this morning is indictive of a good lot.
 
#28 ·
CCI makes hunting/plinking ammo L.
I don't expect consistent trajectories from their products.
Especially not at extended range. Most of my squirrel/rabbit shots
are taken at less than 25 yards. At that range it does fine.
I'm not attempting 50/100 yards in the North Florida brush.

I'll build that aggregate for ya'.
 
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