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Old 05-20-2020, 08:31 AM
squirrel1
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Shot some 200 yards shots on paper



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Need to do one more time.
Some folks think the bullet tumbles at this distance.

I will reserve final judgement till I shoot one more time with no wind or just a tad.
Preliminary results though I donít think the bullets are tumbling.
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Old 05-21-2020, 09:55 AM
colonelhogan44
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I've routinely dropped squirrels at 200+ (one at 310) with the HM2, so I highly doubt they tumble.
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:11 AM
flangster

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Have a look at jaia's ammo-testing thread "50 at 200" here:

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum....php?t=1129343

Hundreds and hundreds of .22 LR bullet holes at 200 yards and nary a tumble to be found. Kind of a nice data set and puts plenty of myths to rest. . . .
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Old 05-26-2020, 11:36 AM
Gmww
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel1 View Post
Need to do one more time.
Some folks think the bullet tumbles at this distance.

I will reserve final judgement till I shoot one more time with no wind or just a tad.
Preliminary results though I don’t think the bullets are tumbling.
I'm one that has had them tumble at 200. Accurate to about 175 but at 200 they were tumbling. Several others have written about their's tumbling as well. I'm glad for those who had good luck past 200 with accuracy but 17gr v-max for me tumbled. I shot a lot more than what's in the picture. They didn't hit the paper. My weather condition was a calm overcast day. At 175 I was hitting a 3" target with no problem.

Edit: I did find an article that might explain the keyholing occuring due to transonic wobble. "What happens in terms of ballistics and accuracy, is that the center of pressure shifts forward toward the tip of the bullet. The shifting of the center of pressure lengthen the lever between it and the center of gravity, amplifying static and dynamic instability. The result is that the bullet angle of attack and yaw mightdramatically change, invalidating all the trajectory predictions made by ballistic software, and making it impossible for us to compensate correctly for drop and drift. It might also produce an increase in wobble, which can lead to an accuracy decay and can make the bullet tumble. That’s the reason why shooting beyond the transonic range (the distance at which the residual speed reaches Mach 1.2) results in “key holes”, that is, holes made on the target by tumbling bullets that impacted on their side, instead of at the tip. https://sofrep.com/news/long-range-s...nsonic-region/




Last edited by Gmww; 05-26-2020 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:44 PM
tfrank
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What would the rate of twist...

What would the rate of twist be in your barrel??? 1-9 or 1-10???
I have relined several rifles to 17 Mach2 but I have only used the 1-10 twist liners for my relines. Also I have never shot past 125 yards or so so I can add nothing to this conversation, but I am still very interested in info regarding this subject as you can get a Redman liner in either a 1-9 twist or a 1-10 twist. So if a 1-10 twist rate allows bullets to destabilize at 200 and a 1-9 twist rate doesn't, then I would want the 1-9 twist rate. This does assume that there will be no difference in accuracy between the 2 twist rates, and that other variables will stay the same. Yeah I know big assumption!!!
God Bless, Frank.

Last edited by tfrank; 05-31-2020 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:55 PM
Gmww
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfrank View Post
What would the rate of twist be in your barrel??? 1-9 or 1-10???
I have relined several rifles to 17 Mach2 but I have only used the 1-10 twist liners for my relines. Also I have never shot past 125 yards or so so I can add nothing to this conversation, but I am still very interested in info regarding this subject as you can get a Redman liner in either a 1-9 twist or a 1-10 twist. So if a 1-10 twist rate allows bullets to destabilize at 200 and a 1-9 twist rate doesn't, then I would want the 1-9 twist rate. This does assume that there will be no difference in accuracy between the 2 twist rates, and that other variables will stay the same. Yeah I know big assumption!!!
God Bless, Frank.
I believe they are 1:9 twist. The two barrels I had made are from Green Mountain 17 cal. blanks. The third rifle is a Ruger American Rimfire from Whittaker. I believe that is a 1:9 twist also. My best theory is still transonic wobble as being the culprit. I hope to get to the range and do some more testing. I have Hornady and CCI with the V-Max 17gr. Also have the 17 gr VLT bullet. If the faster bullet which is advertised at 2100 fps stays true at 200 yards sea level then it will further confirm my suspicions of transonic wobble.
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Old 06-02-2020, 03:51 PM
colonelhogan44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmww View Post
I believe they are 1:9 twist. The two barrels I had made are from Green Mountain 17 cal. blanks. The third rifle is a Ruger American Rimfire from Whittaker. I believe that is a 1:9 twist also. My best theory is still transonic wobble as being the culprit. I hope to get to the range and do some more testing. I have Hornady and CCI with the V-Max 17gr. Also have the 17 gr VLT bullet. If the faster bullet which is advertised at 2100 fps stays true at 200 yards sea level then it will further confirm my suspicions of transonic wobble.
All the long range shooting I did was with the old school (hot) Eley ammo. I have an old Savage MKII, and I have no idea on the barrel twist.
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