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  #106  
Old 05-31-2019, 12:22 AM
crotchrocket

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The key is to carry and if that heavy bulky .380 pistol has you dreading strapping on for the day it’s better to have something than nothing.

A 22lr will definitely kill you, but how quickly. Deer are a good example although slightly lighter than full grown humans. If the round won’t drop a deer in it’s tracks then it won’t stop a human either. They may still die from the wound bleeding out slowly or drowning in their own blood, but it won’t be quick.

So your options are a magnum cartridge in a 5”+ barrel for a quick lights out or anything smaller for a pain and slow death deterrent. Which makes the common .45,.40,9mm rounds kind of pointless for self defense as they are probably not a lot more effective than a 22lr. 9mm not being really any advantage over a .380 or 38 special for poking 3/8” size holes in people.
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  #107  
Old 05-31-2019, 01:13 AM
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My 2 cents or at least somebodyelses

Not to add to the caliber wars...........

The Best Handgun Caliber - A Real World Study

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nycYxb-zNwc

Right...Wrong...Indifferent
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  #108  
Old 05-31-2019, 05:51 AM
deltaT

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accooper raises a critical point with regard to CIVILIAN self defense encounters with a handgun, the mere display of a pistol is enough in the majority of instances to stop the threat-research shows that if the pistol is a revolver the desired result is even greater.

In armed encounters when a gun must be used by a civilian the total number of shots fired is less than two-the incident is over in less than five seconds and the distance is about at arms length.

Is the op well served by carrying a .22 lr (hopefully with self defense ammo) I believe so-as mentioned in this thread shot placement is key but I do think that .22 wmr is a better choice and both the Mrs. and I will often grab a mag revolver though our snub of choice is a 9mm LCR which I happen to think is the perfect civilian carry handgun.

Nearly everyone has accepted military/police training procedures as necessary for civilians and I believe herein lies a fundamental problem-our professional protectors NEED to train for an eventual/probable gunfight sadly it is in the cards for them we civilians have far different needs, thankfully.

In fact this former police officer does not even own a semi auto pistol, for a variety of reasons one of which is demonstrated by a very recent police shooting in CT, where if you watch carefully you will see the Officer clearing his weapon after what appears to be a failure to fire-six (or five) for sure with a wheel gun and a misfire, if it ever happens is simply solved by another finger pull.

Easy to learn, easy to use, easy to maintain, if it were up to me every citizen would be required to own/carry a handgun and the requirement would be to begin with a revolver for a fairly significant period of time-after competency one would be able to carry anything, anywhere, even a belt fed master blaster while pulling a little red wagon full of +p+ super duper zombie destroyers..

Forgot, Ballistics by the Inch is a great place to see energy/velocity for vaious calibers, check it out if you haven't already.

Last edited by deltaT; 05-31-2019 at 05:56 AM.
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  #109  
Old 05-31-2019, 06:50 AM
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one would be able to carry anything, anywhere, even a belt fed master blaster while pulling a little red wagon full of +p+ super duper zombie destroyers..
.
Finally a voice of common sense.
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  #110  
Old 05-31-2019, 10:32 AM
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Exclamation .22 for Self defense

From my own point of view, carry (1)what you have; (2)are most competent and confident with. A third point might be practice frequently.

One interesting thing about the defensive use of a .22 is what starts out to be a non-lethal hit can turn into a lethal hit as the bullet tends to follow an irregular path in the body. When John Hinkley tried to assassinate President Reagan he used a .22. When they got the president to the hospital and took the x-rays they discovered that the hit was far worse than it appeared due in part that it was a ricochet that hit and collapsed a lung and barely missed his heart.
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  #111  
Old 05-31-2019, 02:06 PM
dennis2146
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Originally Posted by Oldmountain2 View Post
I carry a .22 as primary self defense weapon.
OK. Now that I have come clean....
Why? You may be asking. I have asked that, too. Lots.
I have used .40 auto, couple of .357 S&W’s. All very good and reliable.
Thoughts......
1. I am NOT police or military. I really want the BG (bad guy) to change his (or her) intention & go away. Unlike the police, I don’t want to ‘acquire’ the BG.
2. According to research by Dr. Gary Kleck, 90% of attack are stopped simply by the presence of a gun. Any gun. In 5% of encounters the gun is fired. In the other 5% the BG is shot.
1st Rule: HAVE A GUN.
3. Why is there a failure in self defense?
Quote:
‘But in those cases when an armed citizen is killed or seriously injured, it’s often at least partly because of one of the following issues:
A. The gun was inaccessible and they couldn’t get it out quickly enough.
B. They were able to retrieve the gun but it wasn’t ready to be fired — either there was no round in the chamber or a manual safety was engaged and they couldn’t disengage it in time.
C. They managed to fire shots at the threat but either missed completely or hit a non-vital area.
D. The gun malfunctioned after firing and they could not clear it before being overwhelmed by their attacker.’

(Source: https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/w...ocket-pistols/ )

OK..... Rule #1 (part 2) HAVE A GUN that always works and have skills to use it.

4. Ammo. Are .22’s unreliable? Cheep bulk boxes, maybe. But I have never had a dud, even in a S&W 317 with reduced strength main & rebound springs. Much much better DA trigger, too. OK, I did sent 8 CCI Quik Shok rounds through both washer & dryer. All fired, though 2 required a second hit! Auto pistols require more thoughtful feeding.

5. I accidentally lit off a .357 after I had removed my ear protection, outdoors. My ears rang for days! The thought of setting one off in a hallway really requires guts. One shot and I would be both deaf and muzzle flash blinded. Follow up shot is very problematic. .22’s allows multiple shots.

The highest rated ammo for defense is CCI 32gr Quik Shok. (segmented). My crony registered 1085 FPS from 2” & 1100 from 3” barrels.

They meet the 90% rule: plan first for the most probable situation, not the outliers.

Look forward to reading your input.
Many Thanks
As a former LEO my thinking is you are looking at statistics and hoping your attacker may have read the very same thing. In reality the .22 is a very small cartridge and is meant for small game and target shooting. While I can understand carrying a small firearm with which to protect yourself that does not mean that firearm should be a .22. There are 38 and 357 revolvers built on the very same small frame as the .22. There are also 9mm handguns built on small frames as well. You may not know but there have been people shot with the .22 who felt a sharp sting but had absolutely no idea they had been shot until they sought medical attention. Criminals have been hit numerous times with a .22 and kept up with their attack. The name of the game with attackers is not to kill them but to stop their attack on the victim. While you may shoot an attacker and have him decide not to continue with the attack, that is not really the same as physiologically STOPPING the attack. For that you need either tissue damage or a bullet placed either in the heart or lungs or in some place that will cause the attacker to stop the attack due to shock or other incapacitation. I think you are playing a dangerous game by carrying a .22 for a self defense weapon. You may just fall on the wrong side of your statistics.
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  #112  
Old 05-31-2019, 07:36 PM
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One area to think about is that you really don't want to use hollow points in a short barrel .22 as they won't expand nor penetrate much. A 40 grain solid high speed is the way to go.
One test that might interest you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-cqNCGnx_o
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  #113  
Old 05-31-2019, 08:53 PM
Mklluser
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22 cal primary

Gentleman, the OP may have us on a fools errand.
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  #114  
Old 05-31-2019, 11:24 PM
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Head shots with a .22 on a stationary target at the range is one thing. But it is NOT adequate self defense practice.

People seem to ignore the fact that the assailant will NOT be standing still 21 feet from you, while you calmly shoot at him/her, pulling your firearm from concealment.

Head shots on a ASSAILANT, who might be high one who-knows-what, and who is NOT standing still, and who may be 2 feet from you, with YOUR ADRENALIN flowing, gives you less than any adequate percentage chance of stopping that threat.

Remember the senator shot in the head with a 9mm and did not die? With a .22 you are going to need to shoot in the eye, temple, brain stem, carotid artery, and avoid the thicker portions of the skull with a .22, especially one designed to fragment in the body of SMALL animals.

If you want to challenge me on this:
Have someone else load your handgun with a few snap caps, have then put their finger on the target retrieval button, and have them scream at you just about when they think you are going to pull the trigger, and see how may times you get that head shot on the moving target.

If you are gong to carry with the thought that you might have the absolute need to shoot a human being, PLEASE carry enough caliber to do the stopping under less than optimal conditions, and start practicing under less than optimal conditions.
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  #115  
Old 06-01-2019, 05:11 AM
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https://www.gunpolicy.org/documents/...any-other/file

https://www.quora.com/What-handgun-c...he-most-people

Who knows what facts are correct, A 22 could be a 223 which is much more lethal.
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  #116  
Old 06-01-2019, 06:03 AM
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Head shots with a .22 on a stationary target at the range is one thing. But it is NOT adequate self defense practice.

People seem to ignore the fact that the assailant will NOT be standing still 21 feet from you, while you calmly shoot at him/her, pulling your firearm from concealment.

Head shots on a ASSAILANT, who might be high one who-knows-what, and who is NOT standing still, and who may be 2 feet from you, with YOUR ADRENALIN flowing, gives you less than any adequate percentage chance of stopping that threat.

Remember the senator shot in the head with a 9mm and did not die? With a .22 you are going to need to shoot in the eye, temple, brain stem, carotid artery, and avoid the thicker portions of the skull with a .22, especially one designed to fragment in the body of SMALL animals.

If you want to challenge me on this:
Have someone else load your handgun with a few snap caps, have then put their finger on the target retrieval button, and have them scream at you just about when they think you are going to pull the trigger, and see how may times you get that head shot on the moving target.

If you are gong to carry with the thought that you might have the absolute need to shoot a human being, PLEASE carry enough caliber to do the stopping under less than optimal conditions, and start practicing under less than optimal conditions.
Get James Brady's opinion on a 22 from a short barrel handgun.
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  #117  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:25 AM
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Feel free to carry a 22 caliber Röhm RG-14 revolver, or Omega 22 short.
Its a free country.
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  #118  
Old 06-01-2019, 08:51 AM
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My original thought was I can hit with a .22 and thought to do it!. The first time a 300 pound drunk comes at you the little .22 stays home!
"If you have the right to kill." Might as well do your job before it is done to you.
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  #119  
Old 06-01-2019, 09:53 AM
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mklluser.... what is OP?
Original Poster?
I’m new to site.
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  #120  
Old 06-01-2019, 12:49 PM
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mklluser.... what is OP?
Original Poster?
.
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