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Different (for me)Anschutz Cleaning Instuction

4K views 38 replies 17 participants last post by  Hi-NV Shooter 
#1 ·
Reviewing the owners manual for my new 1913A bench rest rifle, I was surprised to read that when cleaning the rifle you should not pull the brush (nylon or bronze) back through the bore. They instruct you to push the brush through beyond the end of the barrel then remove it before pulling the rod back out of the bore. Manual specifically says pulling the brush back down can ruin the bore.

Everything I have learned to date said only to make sure you push the brush completely out of the end of the bore (so the bristles can fully flex back into their normal position, otherwise you could damage the bore) before you pull the brush back through and out of the bore.

This, to me, is an interesting instruction as it gets at the, often intense, debate of whether anything other than a nylon/plastic brush can/will damage the bore. The old brass/bronze is so much softer than steel that it could never harm the bore, argument.

FURTHER, manual also indicates that a nylon brush should normally be used for cleaning the bore unless it becomes exceptionally dirty. This implies they are thinking the bronze/brass brush is harder on the bore (I think?).

Well I know what I am going to do from now on since I just purchased this fine piece of craftsmanship.....

Looking forward to your thoughts. Have at it.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
CZer,

Anschutz's cleaning instructions have changed over time, but are on the mild side. I suspect they intend a degree of caution to limit potential damage by the ham-fisted.

As a novice I was also taught to remove a brush at the muzzle. The idea is simple, to protect the crown; if the rod isn't perfectly centred in the bore, over time it may cause uneven wear. With a good rod guide, this may not be a problem (and isn't for some shooters), but Anschutz can't assume you have an MWerks etc.

As for brushes, I would say that bronze is harder on fouling, not hard on the bore. In my experience a bronze brush is more effective at removing fouling than a nylon brush. This is another example of Anschutz's caution to my mind. After a thorough clean, many barrels, but not all, don't shoot to Point of Aim for a few shots. In recommending a nylon brush, Anschutz are, IMO, trying to minimise the need for fouling shots after cleaning and consequently complaints from customers that their new rifle has been damaged. If cleaning with a nylon brush maintains accuracy to your satisfaction that's great, you might find that after some thousands of rounds enough crud is left in the grooves that you need a bronze brush. It doesn't mean you can't use a bronze brush, or shouldn't use one, if you determine the rifle shoots better, or just want to for peace of mind.
 
#3 ·
Reviewing the owners manual for my new 1913A bench rest rifle, I was surprised to read that when cleaning the rifle you should not pull the brush (nylon or bronze) back through the bore. They instruct you to push the brush through beyond the end of the barrel then remove it before pulling the rod back out of the bore. Manual specifically says pulling the brush back down can ruin the bore.

Everything I have learned to date said only to make sure you push the brush completely out of the end of the bore (so the bristles can fully flex back into their normal position, otherwise you could damage the bore) before you pull the brush back through and out of the bore.

This, to me, is an interesting instruction as it gets at the, often intense, debate of whether anything other than a nylon/plastic brush can/will damage the bore. The old brass/bronze is so much softer than steel that it could never harm the bore, argument.

FURTHER, manual also indicates that a nylon brush should normally be used for cleaning the bore unless it becomes exceptionally dirty. This implies they are thinking the bronze/brass brush is harder on the bore (I think?).

Well I know what I am going to do from now on since I just purchased this fine piece of craftsmanship.....

Looking forward to your thoughts. Have at it.
Unless they changed again what type of brush to use, several years ago they recommend a bronze brush as they noted a nylon will not clean the bore properly.

If you look at the manual, it probably was printed before 2015

As far as cleaning methods, that would be a personal preference. my own experience, I clean with a bronze brush and do the dreaded back and forth motion. I don't allow the brush to go past the crown, but for a couple of rows of the bristles and yes I reverse the brush inside the bore. I do use pistol size brushes, which are smaller in diameter and shorter as well.
is this the correct or right way to clean? I will let my rifles tell me and so far they like how I clean them.

couple things you should ask yourself, if the brush bristles are hard enough to damage a bore if you reverse them inside the bore, then they would be hard enough to damage the bore as you run the brush straight thru.

What I will say you do need, and that is a good bore guide and cleaning rod. be aware the match 54 ejector can scrape up a rod real good so rod diameter should be .187-.203 and no more.

Lee
 
#4 ·
A bore guide is a given! I always remove the brush after it passes through the bore of any of my precision rifles. This method does not apply to my plinkers or pistols .Most barrel makers recommend removing the brush after it exits the bore to protect the crown from getting damaged by potentially bringing the brush back through the barrel. I don't think its the brush they're so worried about as to what could be on it like metal and fouling material. This cleaning method has been debated for years ,but if you have an expensive rifle that shoots really well why take a chance.
 
#15 ·
A bore guide is a given! I always remove the brush after it passes through the bore of any of my precision rifles. This method does not apply to my plinkers or pistols .Most barrel makers recommend removing the brush after it exits the bore to protect the crown from getting damaged by potentially bringing the brush back through the barrel. I don't think its the brush they're so worried about as to what could be on it like metal and fouling material. This cleaning method has been debated for years ,but if you have an expensive rifle that shoots really well why take a chance.
if you have metal on the brush, something very terrible has happened.

but the reason it is recommended not to pull the brush back back once it exits the barrel. is the chance the joint where brush and rod meet will be caught on the crown.

This is why it is highly recommended to turn the jag and brush shaft so it will be the same diameter as the rod.

Lee
 
#5 · (Edited)
The discussion will carry on forever. In the German military the issued cleaning kit was a chain only to be only pulled from breech to muzzle. We were told that pulling it the other way would make the highly accurate:)D) HK G3 into a watering can. Guns that held a five shot group of 12cm at 100 meters passed. The muzzle break would have protected the crown from damage, even if pulled through the other way but HK had been clear about the cleaning procedure of the gun based on a Rheinmetall patent, just like Anschütz is with the 54 action they built on Gehmann's fine improvement of the reduced Mauser action.
In other words, Germans can be very anal and come up with terrific ideas, inventing rockets and jet planes but sometimes too much is too much. At least for me and that's why I am here:) and not worry about cleaning my guns too much.
 
#8 ·
The MG42 was a WWII weapon and Rheinmetall held the patent, the post-war version was the MG3 at a reduced cyclic rate, still made by Rheinmetall. Never the less, HK was chosen to manufacture the G3 and came up with the same cleaning procedure that Anschutz is recommending and I doubt that on either gun, the MG3, the G3 or an Anschutz it will make a noticeable difference.

On a side note, the G3 was also used as a sniper rifle with a Hensoldt 4x24 from selected rifles and those were as accurate as you can only wish a centerfire rifle to be. I guarantee you I'd leave the Anschutz 54 Match behind past 300 meters:D.
 
#7 ·
The CD for my 1710 say's for a lightly fouled barrel push a nylon brush with oil on it thru the bore.For a heavily fouled barrel a bronze brush with a solvent.Say's nothing about removing the brushes at the muzzle.I usually shoot between 100-150 shot's of RWS and then push a wet patch of Hoppe's followed by 3-4 dry patches.Dialed back in after the first 5.Havn't used a brush yet.
 
#10 ·
Andy,

I was trying, possibly badly, to say that with such a rate of fire, the cleaning regimen didn't matter as pin-point precision wasn't the object.
This ol Marine knew what you were referring to. The beaten zone...

FWIW. I like to remove the bronze brush at the end of stroke. Keeps all the crud going one way. Out the muzzle. May not make a difference, but it makes me feel good.
 
#12 · (Edited)
If we shoot 100,000 rounds and pay roughly $400.00 per case it will cost us $8,000.00. If we shoot 200,000 at roughly $400.00 per case that is $4.00 per box that is $16,000.00 bucks. And we are going to worry about cleaning and a $300.00 or $400.00 barrel. I believe the manufacturers have made more than one barrel for our rifles. Not only this but the people that take a brass round head screw and add lapping compound and put the screw in a hand drill to redo the crown on their barrel and we are worried about the crown. Interesting. Cleaning methods should be about the least of our worries. Just clean it with what ever method you have been taught and leave it go at that.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I researched this a lot. Between Eric Uptagtafts method and Eley's method this is what I came up with. Be advised it allow my wife to shoot cleans in smallbore F-class:
--Wet patch the bore until it comes out clean
--put a couple of drops of bore cleaner on a bronze brush
--run the bronze brush thru the bore. Remove the brush at the muzzle
--withdraw the rod. Do this five times.
--clean the bolt then lube the wear points.
--Wet patch the bore until the patches are clean.
--Dry patch until patches are dry.
--Lube bore if in a rust environment.
--Dry patch before shooting if bore was lubed.

Fire several shots into the berm before firing sighting shots. Cold/clean bore sighters mean nothing. The bore must be warm, clean or dirty for sighting shots to matter.
 
#23 ·
I researched this a lot. Between Eric Uptagtafts method and Eley's method this is what I came up with. Be advised it allow my wife to shoot cleans in smallbore F-class:
--Wet patch the bore until it comes out clean
--put a couple of drops of bore cleaner on a bronze brush
--run the bronze brush thru the bore. Remove the brush at the muzzle
--withdraw the rod. Do this five times.

--clean the bolt then lube the wear points.
--Wet patch the bore until the patches are clean.
--Dry patch until patches are dry.
--Lube bore if in a rust environment.
--Dry patch before shooting if bore was lubed.

Fire several shots into the berm before firing sighting shots. Cold/clean bore sighters mean nothing. The bore must be warm, clean or dirty for sighting shots to matter.
Is the reason for removing the brush is to avoid drawing it across the crown or you don't want the crud on the brush to be pulled back into the bore.

unless you clean the brush before using it again(which I do) that would defeat the purpose.
also when pulling the rod back thru the bore without the brush, what is supporting and keeping the rod from dragging across the lands and grooves.

Lee
 
#24 ·
This is indeed a never ending discussion. I'm not a gunsmith, but I have owned and put a lot of ammo through several BR rifles, both rimfire and centerfire. So, I've done a lot of barrel cleaning. This thing of removing the brush at the muzzle is a real puzzlement, and something with which I disagree. I think you present a greater risk to crown damage by screwing around with the brush while it's hanging out the muzzle. Assuming the brush shaft is no larger than your rod, just very gently pull it into the bore and back to the chamber. I have cleaned a lot of good barrels this way and never damaged one. But I think the specific technique you prefer is not as important as simply being cautious with the rod and any attachment. It's like using an air wrench on wheel nuts, you can use one forever without damage, or you can break a stud the first time. It's always the nut behind the tool that needs the most attention.
 
#26 ·
In rifle be it rimfire or center fire there has always been "Flavor of the Day". I prefer all of my barrels with a 11 degree crown as it does help guide the brush back into the bbl After the 1st pass through the bore I RE SATURATE my brush with solution before pulling it through the bore-after that 10-20 stokes and I am done with the brush.

When you are at the bench looking for something to do chuck a brass brush into your cordless drill and while running drag in bac & forth across your bbl (DON'T do this on BLUED BBL's) and I will Guarantee U NO HARM will come to the bbl

If you believe that the brush will damage your bbl then by all means remove it --

Jim
 
#27 ·
Brass versus steel

The brushes I use have brass shanks...the idea that these could harm a hardened steel barrel I find ludicrous. I would love to see someone try and destroy an anvil with a brass hammer. I will go shooting while they pound away.
And have you ever seen anyone clean anything else with any kind of brush where you only used it in one direction?

That being said, I have shot centerfire benchrest and some people go to truly anal retentive lengths to give themselves any perceived edge. And the only possible reason I see for removing the brush before the return stroke is to not drag anything back into the action.....but do you not clean your action as well, and did you not push patches through until they came out clean before brushing?

These cleaning debates are endless and everyone is going to do what they believe works for them regardless, carry on.
 
#29 ·
Here we are worried and going crazy about the damage that a cleaning brush or patching attachment will do to this "Sainted Muzzle Crown. Yet we turn around and go after this same "Sainted Muzzle Crown" with a brass screw in a drill motor and valve lapping compound. Just to correct any accuracy issues. "Huston, is there an issue here?"
 
#31 · (Edited)
Reviewing the owners manual for my new 1913A bench rest rifle, I was surprised to read that when cleaning the rifle you should not pull the brush (nylon or bronze) back through the bore. They instruct you to push the brush through beyond the end of the barrel then remove it before pulling the rod back out of the bore. Manual specifically says pulling the brush back down can ruin the bore.

Everything I have learned to date said only to make sure you push the brush completely out of the end of the bore (so the bristles can fully flex back into their normal position, otherwise you could damage the bore) before you pull the brush back through and out of the bore.

This, to me, is an interesting instruction as it gets at the, often intense, debate of whether anything other than a nylon/plastic brush can/will damage the bore. The old brass/bronze is so much softer than steel that it could never harm the bore, argument.

FURTHER, manual also indicates that a nylon brush should normally be used for cleaning the bore unless it becomes exceptionally dirty. This implies they are thinking the bronze/brass brush is harder on the bore (I think?).

Well I know what I am going to do from now on since I just purchased this fine piece of craftsmanship.....

Looking forward to your thoughts. Have at it.
Just clean your barrels the same way you have in the past. Should you wish to change something do so. The reality is this is about like a pimple on the %%% of progress. Other wise this trivia will make you start to seek a mental institution.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Okay the general thoughts on cleaning target rifles is that the crown is super important and by back pulling the brush you can damage it, possibly affecting accuracy. In general you should have a guide, they are available in aluminum or a form of nylon. That keeps the rod straight lessening the chances of it rubbing the chamber, again possibly affecting accuracy.
I use nylon rods or coated aluminum ones. Even with cleaning patching it is recommended that you push through pull the patch off and then remove the rod.
Personally I use bore snakes in .204 for my anschutz, it seems to work well and the .22 cal snake is really tight and hard to pull through
 
#35 · (Edited)
And precisely why are you re-barreling the rifle? Oh you must have worn the Sainted Muzzle out with a brush.

I have not said anything will shoot like that. What I have said is that to many people over think this cleaning issue. There are to many variables in the ammunition. Barrel harmonics, bedding, and the list goes on and on.

Lets take the cleaning rods and barrels. Barrels are bored for a 22lr at .217 for the bore and .222 for the groove. That gives us .005 thousands for a total of groove depth. When this is split on the 2 halves of the inside diameter. This leaves us with a land depth of .0025 thousands per side of the barrel. About half the thickness of a sheet of paper depending on the weight paper you purchase.

Now we take the cleaning rod. The normal diameter of the rod at the brass connection for the brush or patch is .205 to .208 thousands. Giving us .009 to .010 thousands of an inch. Now we take this in half again due to the fact we have an inside diameter. We now have at the most .005 difference. Which is less that the thickness of a normal sheet of paper.

The bronze brushes are at .240 to .250 on their diameter. This makes them center in the bore the second they re enter the round hole. Take a baby bottle and pull a bottle cleaning brush through it and you will see the laws of physics take over immediately.

Now we have a brush that has fallen .005 thousands out of concentric alignment with the bore. When you return the brush through the bore it self centers in the bore immediately.

What the real issue has been in the past from bench rest shooters that clean every 15 to 20 rounds. They were at one time using steel rods for cleaning due to the fact that was all that was available. We did make a few aluminum rods to help but that was to little to late. Then came coated rods and that was a primary answer.

The steel rods actually wore the lands in the barrels at the muzzle as well as in the forcing cones. .0025 thousands of an inch does not take long to wear out with a steel cleaning rod. With a 6 PPC or a .222 they are gone in no time. They also burned out forcing cones in a short time in about 1500 rounds.

What I find here it is the changes in the ammunition and looking for the proper lot numbers. The shooters have a lot to do with the issues of accuracy. Tuning is another big factor. Outside temperatures and wind.

A 22lr will last you a lifetime if you just use you head and clean it. How you clean is up to you and what you use is up to you. When you clean if at all up to you. Your cleaning rod and pulling the brush back through the barrel have absolutely nothing to do with it if you just clean. Some people never clean others clean every outing. All up to you and your rifle. .005 less than the thickness of a piece of paper and a self aligning bronze brush totally irrelevant.

This may give a little more insight. https://forums.gunhive.com/topic/3637/22lr-barrel-cleaning
 
#36 ·
And precisely why are you re-barreling the rifle? Oh you must have worn the Sainted Muzzle out with a brush. I replace a barrel when I can not get results I want or it is damaged and normally the barrel came from a used rfile.

I have not said anything will shoot like that. What I have said is that to many people over think this cleaning issue. There are to many variables in the ammunition. Barrel harmonics, bedding, and the list goes on and on.

Lets take the cleaning rods and barrels. Barrels are bored for a 22lr at .217 for the bore and .222 for the groove. That gives us .005 thousands for a total of groove depth. When this is split on the 2 halves of the inside diameter. This leaves us with a land depth of .0025 thousands per side of the barrel. About half the thickness of a sheet of paper depending on the weight paper you purchase.

Now we take the cleaning rod. The normal diameter of the rod at the brass connection for the brush or patch is .205 to .208 thousands. Giving us .009 to .010 thousands of an inch. Now we take this in half again due to the fact we have an inside diameter. We now have at the most .005 difference. Which is less that the thickness of a normal sheet of paper.

The bronze brushes are at .240 to .250 on their diameter. This makes them center in the bore the second they re enter the round hole. Take a baby bottle and pull a bottle cleaning brush through it and you will see the laws of physics take over immediately.

Now we have a brush that has fallen .005 thousands out of concentric alignment with the bore. When you return the brush through the bore it self centers in the bore immediately.

What the real issue has been in the past from bench rest shooters that clean every 15 to 20 rounds. They were at one time using steel rods for cleaning due to the fact that was all that was available. We did make a few aluminum rods to help but that was to little to late. Then came coated rods and that was a primary answer.

The steel rods actually wore the lands in the barrels at the muzzle as well as in the forcing cones. .0025 thousands of an inch does not take long to wear out with a steel cleaning rod. With a 6 PPC or a .222 they are gone in no time. They also burned out forcing cones in a short time in about 1500 rounds.

What I find here it is the changes in the ammunition and looking for the proper lot numbers. The shooters have a lot to do with the issues of accuracy. Tuning is another big factor. Outside temperatures and wind.

A 22lr will last you a lifetime if you just use you head and clean it. How you clean is up to you and what you use is up to you. When you clean if at all up to you. Your cleaning rod and pulling the brush back through the barrel have absolutely nothing to do with it if you just clean. this statement makes no sense?Some people never clean others clean every outing. All up to you and your rifle. .005 less than the thickness of a piece of paper and a self aligning bronze brush totally irrelevant.
How does ammo, lot numbers, tuning and shooter's ability relate to cleaning a barrel properly and safely? how does comparing CF to RF relate. some CFBR shooters will get only 800-1000 rds. before the barrel will just not give the accuracy they want and need, has nothing to do with cleaning.

I believe you made reference that barrels were made to be replaced, so just shoot them and forget about how you clean them. maybe for you minute of squirrel is perfectly fine, for me I want and need minute of pen dot

some of your above statements makes zero sense, the OP ask about how Anschutz said to clean and others posted how they clean, you on the other hand has given zero insight to the OP but only allude to how some of us worry about silly things such as the crown:p:p

Lee
 
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