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Old 07-12-2019, 08:37 PM
War_Machine
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How good of a 22 pistol could you get for ~$1200?



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I've been bitten by the urge to have one truly phenomenal 22LR handgun in my safe. I don't know if this makes sense but I have a Shadow 2 and it's one of those guns that I was beyond happy to have spent money on after shooting it; it is really amazing.

My only 22 handgun is the CZ Kadet that I bought off a member here a long time ago. It's a great gun and a decent plinker but it's not like mind blowingly accurate. At least not with any of the various ammo I've tried it with yet.

I was looking at the Ruger Mk4 series of guns and they seem ok but nothing like crazy.

Is $1200-ish enough to get into like crazy high quality 22 pistol level or would I have to go higher? What kind of accuracy would I really get at that level or is it just wasting money (i.e. is $1200 not enough to get really out of this world accuracy?)

What should I be looking at? S&W 41? Volquartsen? A olympic pistol?
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:08 PM
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A used Hammerli 208 should make you very happy.
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:12 PM
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First question to be asked is what do you what it for? Just accuracy or a type of comp race gun? Semi or single shot or bolt. There are so many things to know to really narrow what you can get but you have to set some kind of idea of use for us to suggest a model.
There are so many good ones out there, how accurate does it have to be to make you happy? What type of action or options do you want/need.
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:40 PM
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You could get a used S&W Model 41, a Browning Medalist, a High Standard Victor or Supermatic, or a S&W Model 17. Really, at that price you have a lot of good choices. All will likely be more accurate than you are, at least off-hand.

I would choose something with a good supply of spare parts and magazines for the semi-autos.

You should ask yourself whether you want to shoot it with a red dot, and what your mounting options are. Whether you want to shoot it suppressed, etc.

If it were me, I'd get the Hammerli mentioned above. . .


Edit: I have a Model 41 that looks like this:



And when it shot like this, guys here suggested I get it checked out to see whether something was wrong with it. LOL.

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Last edited by flangster; 07-12-2019 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:47 PM
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Here is my Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite converted to a Volquartsen Mamba. The Mamba is built on the MK IV lower. You can order one complete from VQ for $ 1400.

The Scorpion, again on a Ruger frame but using the Mark III is $1200. Both are excellent guns and will shoot into at least 1 inch at 25 yards.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:47 PM
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Old 07-13-2019, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzShooter View Post


Here is my Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite converted to a Volquartsen Mamba. The Mamba is built on the MK IV lower. You can order one complete from VQ for $ 1400.

The Scorpion, again on a Ruger frame but using the Mark III is $1200. Both are excellent guns and will shoot into at least 1 inch at 25 yards.
Another great choice. I put an LLV upper on a Mk III grip for substantially less than $1,200. Shoots just great.



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Old 07-13-2019, 06:00 AM
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There are many .22 l.r. handguns that can hold one inch from a good rest at 25 yards with the right ammo. The Swiss Hämmerlis that I have tested all could do it, my S&W K-22, Colt OMM and Korths can do it. The Walther GSP and the free pistols can definitely do it, too.

Bear in mind though that the Hämmerli 208/211/212 and other European match pistols are better shot with standard velocity ammo only and revolvers shine.

These can definitely shoot an inch at 25 m - and with open sights but some are a little above $1,200.








Last edited by Andyd; 07-13-2019 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 07-13-2019, 07:24 AM
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Several years back I was in the same mind set (wanted an accurate competition style 22LR pistol).

My first try was the SIG Trailside, supposedly an econo version of the Hammerli 208. But some of the guns had problems (not mine but I came up with the now common modification to avoid breaking the trigger guard). I found the gun too light but the trigger was nice. It was discontinued and re-appeared as the Hammerli Xesses, the problem fixed and supposedly a better trigger(??).

My next try was the Benelli MP90S Olympic style 22LR pistol. It is superb and at the time was the absolutely least expensive Olympic style pistol on the market. It is superb with excellent accuracy, a full adjustable trigger to kill for, great ergonomic with an ergo grip, and a with unique European styling. Today's pricing is closer to $1500. I love that gun but.....

The only source of parts for with either of these guns seem to be Larrys Guns on the east coast. He was the only Benelli pistol importer in the USA that I knew of. He fully supported these guns but he recently died. No one picked up the business to continue it and the stock was sold off to a shooting range company in the mid-west who after about 6 months has not offered anything for sale that I know of.

Today for a budget of $1200 new you can get the excellent S&W Model 41 and you probably will not be disappointed. You might be able to get a better example on the used market of a pre-1990's version with higher polish and a better fit and finish. As collectors force the pricing on the older guns you may not find one of these for your $1200 budget. You can get a real Olympic style European gun but you might have to increase your budget by 2X. I know nothing about the Volquartsen offerings but they have a stellar reputation. Used High Standards are an excellent choice. But again, the collectors force the pricing and they are finicky ammo feeders and very magazine sensitive. They also crack frames if abused with Hi or Hyper Vel ammo and worn out recoil springs. Inspecting one will not tell you how close it might are to cracking as the crack is a fatigue crack that grows in the microstructure of the steel over shooting time.

LDBennett
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:00 PM
War_Machine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Automag View Post
First question to be asked is what do you what it for? Just accuracy or a type of comp race gun? Semi or single shot or bolt. There are so many things to know to really narrow what you can get but you have to set some kind of idea of use for us to suggest a model.
There are so many good ones out there, how accurate does it have to be to make you happy? What type of action or options do you want/need.
Good questions. I'd want a semi auto magazine fed. I don't have a specific style of competition I'd want to shoot, I just kind of want it.
I'd like 2" at 25 yards if that's doable. I know that means match grade ammo and not using bulk pack stuff mostly but I have a 10/22 that will shoot 2" at 100 yards with Federal Match so I bought bricks of that stuff maybe I'll get lucky and this pistol will like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flangster View Post

I would choose something with a good supply of spare parts and magazines for the semi-autos.

You should ask yourself whether you want to shoot it with a red dot, and what your mounting options are. Whether you want to shoot it suppressed, etc.

If it were me, I'd get the Hammerli mentioned above. . .
I hadn't exactly considered spare parts but I was definitely looking for something newer for that reason so finding magazines wasn't a huge issue or so magazines weren't like $100 a piece of something like that.

As to your other questions I don't intend to shoot suppressed but I would really like to be able to mount a red dot, something like a Vortex Venom or Burris FastFire style of dot so a rail up top would be nice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AzShooter View Post


Here is my Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite converted to a Volquartsen Mamba. The Mamba is built on the MK IV lower. You can order one complete from VQ for $ 1400.

The Scorpion, again on a Ruger frame but using the Mark III is $1200. Both are excellent guns and will shoot into at least 1 inch at 25 yards.
1" at 25 is impressive. I wasn't sure if there were a big improvement over the standard Ruger Mk4. What would I need to replace with a Mark 4 internals to get that kind of accuracy? Is here a place I can get just the frames?

Last edited by War_Machine; 07-13-2019 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:21 PM
athappyhiker
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You can get either a new or a vintage S&W 41 in excellent shape for 1200 budget. They are awesome. Or a S&W Mod. 17 if a classic revolver gets your motor revving.
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:08 PM
War_Machine
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Might be splitting hairs but is there going to be a significant accuracy difference between a S&W 41 and a Volquartsen Black Mamba?
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:18 PM
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I would think the difference between the two would be up to the shooter rather than the gun....
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:50 PM
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Smith 41 is the first thing that comes to mind. If it shoots 2" at 25 yards you're not doing it right, they will easily do half that with target (standard velocity) ammo. High Standard is another option but they have not made them in decades, at least the "real" Connecticut version so parts and especially magazines can be a little more work to get right. I have no experience with Volquartsen but lot's of precision shooters love them. For $1200 you can probably buy about half of a Hammerli 208 and as LD mentioned the parts situation is not looking good right now. Good luck with your search and let us know how it turns out.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSc View Post
I would think the difference between the two would be up to the shooter rather than the gun....
Yes, I agree. As for accuracy and dependability, Volquartsen is top notch. If you are concerned with the pistol maintaining it's value, the S&W model 41 would be hard to beat.
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