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Old 04-15-2019, 03:24 PM
ouc

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Premium & Non Premium Ammo Measurments



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I have a 1710 HB that likes Lapua Center X 22 LR more then the higher priced Lapuas, Eleys, or WRS R50. I've read on this site many times that one should only use premium ammo because of the tighter tolerances of these Anschutz rifles. This made me wonder how much different other ammo might be size wise and if all I've read is true. Putting aside that premium subsonic ammo is more accurate and more consistent, I decided to measure some ammo to see how much they all differ. See my notes in the photo.

Used my Mitutoyo micrometer in inches. I don't see any significant size difference that should cause trouble using non premium ammo but I'm not an expert. Is there something I might be missing? Maybe higher pressures?

Just curious as I wouldn't mind trying super sonic ammo to see what happens.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:37 PM
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Are the measurements for each different ammo an average of measurements of a certain number of rounds? That is to say, are the measurements of one example of each kind of ammo or an average of, say, ten for example?

As far as recommendations for using premium ammo, of which there are many varieties and prices, some ammo like CCI SV often do not chamber as easily in Anschutz match rifles and even some sporters. The driving band is long and this makes it harder to push fully into the chamber, with the characteristic result that the bolt is harder to close. Additionally, and no less importantly, many Anschutz users recommend using premium ammo in order to get the best out of a rifle that has a premium price tag. Using bulk ammo in an Anschutz is like putting regular gasoline in a high performance Porsche.
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:02 PM
ouc

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Originally Posted by Penage Guy View Post
Are the measurements for each different ammo an average of measurements of a certain number of rounds? That is to say, are the measurements of one example of each kind of ammo or an average of, say, ten for example?
No, I thought about doing an average and measuring a few but wanted to keep it simple. One can go crazy with such comparisons because then you can argue that one lot is different from another, etc.

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Originally Posted by Penage Guy View Post
As far as recommendations for using premium ammo, of which there are many varieties and prices, some ammo like CCI SV often do not chamber as easily in Anschutz match rifles and even some sporters.
This point is why I wanted to take measurements.

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Originally Posted by Penage Guy View Post
The driving band is long and this makes it harder to push fully into the chamber, with the characteristic result that the bolt is harder to close. Additionally, and no less importantly, many Anschutz users recommend using premium ammo in order to get the best out of a rifle that has a premium price tag. Using bulk ammo in an Anschutz is like putting regular gasoline in a high performance Porsche.
I'll try and chamber some of these rounds next time I'm at the range.
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Old 04-15-2019, 05:07 PM
M52E1
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I wouldn't waste your time measuring or weighing ammunition. The only way to purchase reliably accurate ammunition is to:

- Decide what your goal is
- Decide what your price range is

Once you have arrived at these decisions then test as much as you can with the intention of purchasing as much as you can afford. If you like Center-X, then I recommend sending your barreled action to the Lapua Test center as that will eliminate all external variables and will provide you with objective evidence of what your rifle can achieve with a particular brand of ammunition.

Bill
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Old 04-15-2019, 05:52 PM
NMC_EXP

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To shoot good scores or small groups the primary requirement is ammunition consistency shot to shot.

In any manufacturing operation increasing consistency drives up cost. Boils down to with rare exceptions the more you pay for the ammo the more consistent it will be.

Once a person accepts that fact then as M52E1 says it become a matter of how much you are willing to spend for ammo that meets your requirements.

Once in a while you will find a specific lot of grade #2 that shoots better than grade #1. This as in your example Center-X that shoots better than Midas. But do not count on that being the case with the next two lots of Center-X and Midas.....or grade #1 vs grade #2 from Eley, RWS or any other supplier.

That situation is only a matter of where the supplier's overall quality level is at that specific point in time when those lots were made.

It is not a matter of your rifle performs better grade #2 ammo over the long haul.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:13 PM
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I am not used to seeing Winchester Super X, CCI subsonic HP, Blazers, and Aquila SV in the same sentence as Anschutz, RWS R50, and Lapua Center X.....

Just saying. .
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:40 PM
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Just to throw everyone off in the Anschutz world how about seeing how some Golden bullets, or Thunderbolts perform,,, in your rifles of course. I’d never shoot that crap out of mine!! And to the OP if your looking for decent priced good ammo get a case of the CMP eley it’s pretty good and priced right at $350 something a case.
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:00 AM
tim slater

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It's worth mentioning that Centre-X is made to the same formula as Midas. Midas is just held to a higher standard. Any difference in the external dimensions will be due to manufacturing variance, not because Midas is made to a different spec.

There are small differences between makes, but those don't affect grade; for instance Lapua Midas and RWS R50 have a slightly thicker rim than Eley Tenex. This may affect how the brands shoot in a particular rifle, but doesn't alter the internal consistency.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:38 AM
truckjohn

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ouc View Post
I don't see any significant size difference that should cause trouble using non premium ammo but I'm not an expert. Is there something I might be missing? Maybe higher pressures?

Just curious as I wouldn't mind trying super sonic ammo to see what happens

It took me a couple reads before I found the question.

I wouldn't shoot Stingers as they have a slightly longer case and it may hit the rifling. Otherwise you won't damage your rifle shooting cheap ammo so long as you stay aware of squibs and junk flaking off the bullets and clogging the chamber. These are definitely a risk with cheap bulk pack ammo. So if you want to shoot $15 bulk pack ammo - just make sure you bring your cleaning rod and kit in case you need to knock a squib bullet out of the barrel or unstick junk out of the chamber.

Anschutz rifles are extremely well made using very high quality steel and excellent workmanship. Their designs are good. If anything - they will last longer and shoot cheap ammo much better than cheap rifles that use low quality materials and poor workmanship. Don't be afraid of hunting with them or doing real life fun shooting - they are made to handle this.

That's sort of been my experience with everything. You are much more likely to break cheap stuff than high end stuff doing the same tasks. Cheap stuff is cheap for a reason - they don't just magically give you the best designs, materials, heat treatment, and workmanship for free.... You pay for all that stuff and the money just isn't in the cheap units to get it.
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:39 AM
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I've been shooting an Anschutz from 1968 to 1979 and 2004 to today. Back whenI was shooting indoors position we were shooting Remington Standard Velocity. Yes it shot quite well at 50 feet and never had a problem. I believe "Shooting non match ammo in an Anschutz" is an old wives tale. They certainly aren't going to damage the chamber of barrel. But here is a chart I posted elsewhere and you can decide if they are going to cause a problem.

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Old 04-16-2019, 09:39 AM
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Somewhere out there in the ether is an article that chronicled Eley's quest to improve their .22 ammo some years back. Some of you may be able to reference it. Anyway, Eley identified three primary attributes, maybe fifteen secondary attributes, and like nine hundred tertiary attributes that contribute to accuracy. In that light, I doubt you could simply sit down with a micrometer and sort ammo in a meaningful way.
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:01 AM
ouc

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Quote:
Originally Posted by truckjohn View Post
It took me a couple reads before I found the question.

I wouldn't shoot Stingers as they have a slightly longer case and it may hit the rifling. Otherwise you won't damage your rifle shooting cheap ammo so long as you stay aware of squibs and junk flaking off the bullets and clogging the chamber. These are definitely a risk with cheap bulk pack ammo. So if you want to shoot $15 bulk pack ammo - just make sure you bring your cleaning rod and kit in case you need to knock a squib bullet out of the barrel or unstick junk out of the chamber.

Anschutz rifles are extremely well made using very high quality steel and excellent workmanship. Their designs are good. If anything - they will last longer and shoot cheap ammo much better than cheap rifles that use low quality materials and poor workmanship. Don't be afraid of hunting with them or doing real life fun shooting - they are made to handle this.

That's sort of been my experience with everything. You are much more likely to break cheap stuff than high end stuff doing the same tasks. Cheap stuff is cheap for a reason - they don't just magically give you the best designs, materials, heat treatment, and workmanship for free.... You pay for all that stuff and the money just isn't in the cheap units to get it.
I agree with you 100% and you understood exactly the purpose of my thread. It wasn't about accuracy or which ammo to buy or that I was looking for recommendations. It was about what I've read, i.e. don't use non-premium ammo or risk damage, extra wear, due to this, that, and the other with no real specifics as to why. I was simply curious as to why these things are said and thought maybe there are differences in size specs.

I do have stingers but purposely didn't measure those as I would not shoot those.
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:09 AM
ouc

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKnarr View Post
I've been shooting an Anschutz from 1968 to 1979 and 2004 to today. Back whenI was shooting indoors position we were shooting Remington Standard Velocity. Yes it shot quite well at 50 feet and never had a problem. I believe "Shooting non match ammo in an Anschutz" is an old wives tale. They certainly aren't going to damage the chamber of barrel. But here is a chart I posted elsewhere and you can decide if they are going to cause a problem.

Thank you for the chart. What your saying is what I think I suspected all along.
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Old 04-16-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ouc View Post
I agree with you 100% and you understood exactly the purpose of my thread. It wasn't about accuracy or which ammo to buy or that I was looking for recommendations. It was about what I've read, i.e. don't use non-premium ammo or risk damage, extra wear, due to this, that, and the other with no real specifics as to why. I was simply curious as to why these things are said and thought maybe there are differences in size specs.

I do have stingers but purposely didn't measure those as I would not shoot those.
I think the "caution" comes from competitive shooters. The idea is that each shot and each cleaning uses up a little bit of the barrel's accuracy life... Cheap ammo can be quite dirty as well - so why "waste" the barrel's most accurate life on cheap ammo that is incapable of grouping like the good stuff.

Hans from the Anzchutz factory isn't going to come to your house and repo your Annie if he finds out you are using it to shoot tin cans with Federal Champion.
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:55 PM
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The article about Eley: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...y_101405/99277
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