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  #16  
Old 05-02-2019, 10:30 AM
kseatm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
I do the same(both eyes open), but have been trying more and more to not be looking thru the scope when I shoot, rather I am looking at my flags and wind indicator. so my head is up, seems to make it easier to read what is going on.

I also place my flags so they are just below the bullets flight path, my belief I am getting a much more true reading of the condition. and not a before or after effect.

I adjust the height of my flags so they are about 10-12" below the bore centerline.
haven't shot any of my flags yet

Lee
I agree with this.

Kenny
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  #17  
Old 05-02-2019, 12:14 PM
doclu60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
I do the same(both eyes open), but have been trying more and more to not be looking thru the scope when I shoot, rather I am looking at my flags and wind indicator. so my head is up, seems to make it easier to read what is going on.

I also place my flags so they are just below the bullets flight path, my belief I am getting a much more true reading of the condition. and not a before or after effect.

I adjust the height of my flags so they are about 10-12" below the bore centerline.
haven't shot any of my flags yet

Lee
Another +1 on above comment. When conditions are not stable, shooting heads up will get more shots centered than going to the scope. Switchy conditions leave small windows of opportunity when to shoot. This method must be confirmed with sighters though.
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  #18  
Old 05-08-2019, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
I do the same(both eyes open), but have been trying more and more to not be looking thru the scope when I shoot, rather I am looking at my flags and wind indicator. so my head is up, seems to make it easier to read what is going on.

I also place my flags so they are just below the bullets flight path, my belief I am getting a much more true reading of the condition. and not a before or after effect.

I adjust the height of my flags so they are about 10-12" below the bore centerline.
haven't shot any of my flags yet

Lee
Lee I set a wind indicator up once thinking it was just below where I could see it in the scope
It was close to my bench, problem was I was shooting right through it when it was swinging into the position the bullets were going
Couldn't for the life of me work out why the gun was shooting so poorly
The top of the wind indicator was a four inch foam ball painted bright red

I shot that sucker 24 times and then got onto my gunsmith on the phone and told him that there was something really wrong with my gun

My mates could see what was going on and just said nothing and laughed and laughed they were actually crying they were laughing so much, especially when I rang my gunsmith.

Who doesn't need mates like that?

For years I looked through that scope at every shot but like many here I just look at the flags and probes now and its way better
Lee I had a mate line me up at a night shoot and he had me put the front flag to high so I tried to shot at the bottom line of targets even though I could see the flag swapping quicky
Yeah I hit that sucker twice

Last edited by Thejet; 05-08-2019 at 04:43 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:57 PM
kseatm
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Ben, you crack me up.

Here's a tip for anyone just getting into this. When you go to a match, especially a big match, nobody really cares about you. Some will put their windflags where they want them. They may be in your way, they may be in your firing line.

If they are in your way, tell them to move them. Don't be intimidated as they will leave them there if you let them. And if they are in your firing lane, get them to move the things.

This goes back to something posted earlier. Use your flags. You will know them better than by going by some else's flags. Of course you should look upstream to see what's coming, but rely on what your flags tell you.

An example of what I'm talking about. Me and a buddy were at what most might consider a huge match. A very very big name shooter was on the bench next to us. He had his flags set out and they were in our firing line. My friend and I agreed that if he didn't mind, we'd just use his flags as he was on a different relay than us. He said it was fine with him. Unfortunately, we didn't realize that when he was finished his relay, he picked his flags up and moved them.

Not only were we not using the flags we were comfortable with, we then didn't have any flags at all to go by when our relay came up.

If you're going to get into this, buy good flags. The good ones are expensive. Put them where you are comfortable with. This might be to the right, to the left or down the center of your firing line. Wherever you put them, make sure you don't shoot them! Then get to know what they are saying. Don't go by what the guy next to you has out. You should know what your flags say, so go by that. But, do look upstream so that you can see what's coming.

Also, if you're looking through the scope when you pull the trigger, you may end up cursing yourself sometimes. But then, I know some very good shooters who do it that way. I prefer to be looking at the conditions when I touch the trigger. Gave away two very big matches because I got too focused on looking through the scope when I touched the trigger. Wanted to see the glory of my abilities and only saw a wind switch as I touched the trigger. Wind switches don't lead to glory.

JMO Do as you wish.

Kenny
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  #20  
Old 05-08-2019, 09:42 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thejet View Post
Lee I set a wind indicator up once thinking it was just below where I could see it in the scope
It was close to my bench, problem was I was shooting right through it when it was swinging into the position the bullets were going
Couldn't for the life of me work out why the gun was shooting so poorly
The top of the wind indicator was a four inch foam ball painted bright red

I shot that sucker 24 times and then got onto my gunsmith on the phone and told him that there was something really wrong with my gun

My mates could see what was going on and just said nothing and laughed and laughed they were actually crying they were laughing so much, especially when I rang my gunsmith.

Who doesn't need mates like that?

For years I looked through that scope at every shot but like many here I just look at the flags and probes now and its way better
Lee I had a mate line me up at a night shoot and he had me put the front flag to high so I tried to shot at the bottom line of targets even though I could see the flag swapping quicky
Yeah I hit that sucker twice
Hey Ben, I am not sure I could still call them my mates after that

But to give you an idea of how OCD I am, I actually measured from the bore centerline to the ground and marked my stands so I don't extend them past that height.

Lee
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  #21  
Old 05-08-2019, 09:49 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kseatm View Post
Ben, you crack me up.

Here's a tip for anyone just getting into this. When you go to a match, especially a big match, nobody really cares about you. Some will put their windflags where they want them. They may be in your way, they may be in your firing line.

If they are in your way, tell them to move them. Don't be intimidated as they will leave them there if you let them. And if they are in your firing lane, get them to move the things.

This goes back to something posted earlier. Use your flags. You will know them better than by going by some else's flags. Of course you should look upstream to see what's coming, but rely on what your flags tell you.

An example of what I'm talking about. Me and a buddy were at what most might consider a huge match. A very very big name shooter was on the bench next to us. He had his flags set out and they were in our firing line. My friend and I agreed that if he didn't mind, we'd just use his flags as he was on a different relay than us. He said it was fine with him. Unfortunately, we didn't realize that when he was finished his relay, he picked his flags up and moved them.

Not only were we not using the flags we were comfortable with, we then didn't have any flags at all to go by when our relay came up.

If you're going to get into this, buy good flags. The good ones are expensive. Put them where you are comfortable with. This might be to the right, to the left or down the center of your firing line. Wherever you put them, make sure you don't shoot them! Then get to know what they are saying. Don't go by what the guy next to you has out. You should know what your flags say, so go by that. But, do look upstream so that you can see what's coming.

Also, if you're looking through the scope when you pull the trigger, you may end up cursing yourself sometimes. But then, I know some very good shooters who do it that way. I prefer to be looking at the conditions when I touch the trigger. Gave away two very big matches because I got too focused on looking through the scope when I touched the trigger. Wanted to see the glory of my abilities and only saw a wind switch as I touched the trigger. Wind switches don't lead to glory.

JMO Do as you wish.

Kenny
Hey Kenny, This past Sunday I shot about 95% of my shots while watching my flags. all 9 points I dropped was because ,you guessed it I looked thru the scope when I pulled the trigger.
even though we went back to the RBA target, my X count was still in the 40+ so I am real happy with that and can only contribute that to watching the flags.

Lee
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  #22  
Old 05-09-2019, 01:32 AM
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Here is a tip that I use whilst not shooting my flags or probes
I purchased a small rechargable lazer that I mount on the bench and point at the bottom of the target
This gives me the exact line and height so the flags can't get hit and yet are at the maxuim height so I can easily see them

If I had one of these set up in the previous times where I shot my probe and flag it would have never happened

They work great in daylight or night and you can see the lazer dot hitting the top of the flag for height and position I just let the dot shine on my stomach and drop the peg so I know I am in line.
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  #23  
Old 05-09-2019, 04:51 AM
linekin
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I shoot over the top of my heavy guns. When shooting my 6x at 2-300yds I tend to still shoot thru the scope. I can see the back flags better that way. However, I did get the ocular bell in the nose the other day so will be searching for some larger flags!

Keith
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  #24  
Old 05-09-2019, 08:08 AM
doclu60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linekin View Post
I shoot over the top of my heavy guns. When shooting my 6x at 2-300yds I tend to still shoot thru the scope. I can see the back flags better that way. However, I did get the ocular bell in the nose the other day so will be searching for some larger flags!

Keith
In IR Sporter class, 6X scope, I shoot through the scope as well. My sporter needs to be 'held' and confirming POA must be done while looking through the scope. The wider field of view does allow seeing most of my flags though, so misses caused by switches are limited.
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  #25  
Old 05-09-2019, 08:25 AM
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I was just thinking about that this morning on my dog walk, pondering how I would manage my sporters (I have no real bench-gun or rig) without looking through the scope.
So much of this almost sounds like a remote launch of a rocket.
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  #26  
Old 05-09-2019, 03:08 PM
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Its more like a ambush of the target
Find a hold off that is working on that day and wait for the condition to come to you
Some days its easy some days its hard work
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  #27  
Old 05-14-2019, 08:14 PM
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clad, closest may have the greatest impact all things being equal, not everything is equal. look what the folks that have home field advantage are doing, nothing beats time on your homefield. when in Rome do what the Romans do. marty
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  #28  
Old 05-19-2019, 07:08 PM
mwezell
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I'm not a big believer in putting more value on nearer flags than further. The biggest difference that I can see, from a technical standpoint, is the faster the bullet is going, the more drag it has....more drag equals more drift, all else equal. But it's not equal...as the slower round spends more time being deflected. Drag is why bullets drift and once the wind stops acting on the bullet, there is no force to keep it moving off course. IOW, if it gets blown off by 1/2" in the first 50 ft by that force but it stops blowing after 50ft, it continues to be 1/2" off of its original course for the remainder of the distance. This is generally speaking. I won't say that there is zero correction time after being deflected but it is very small.

Bottom line...shoot the sighters and weight the info from the flags accordingly and don't overthink this stuff. I can't prove that I'm right but I bet no one can prove me wrong either...for the same reasons. In the real world, it's hard quantify these things and one is better served by shooting more and reading theoreticals less.
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