SA-22 design change - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:30 AM
Lynton

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
UK
Posts: 
56
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
SA-22 design change



Log in to see fewer ads
Hi All
I've been reading your very informative posts for a while now as a guest and learned a lot about .22 rifles. Now I've joined as a member (from the UK) and have a question about the evolution of the Browning SA-22. I have an early model that has the loading port in the top of the stock (pistol grip) and has the slim forend rather like the Remington 241 that Browning also designed. I believe this early version wasn't officially sold in the USA but some seem to have made their way there.

I also have a later Belgian made version which is like the current (Japanese made) model with the loading port in the side and the heavier forend. I know these were only officially sold in the USA after 1956 and production moved to Japan in '74.

What I can't find out is when the design change was made from the slim forend/top port version to current side port version. Do any of you knowledgeable people know the answer?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:00 AM
GladesGuy's Avatar
GladesGuy is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2013
Location: 
So. Fla.
Posts: 
4,016
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Top loaders were made by FN from 1914 until 1955.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:40 AM
Lynton

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
UK
Posts: 
56
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
SA-22 design change

Many thanks for that information GladesGuy. I guess it makes sense that the design upgrade coincided with entry into the US market.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:33 PM
gashtyke

Join Date: 
Mar 2014
Posts: 
12
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
The top loader was sold in the UK as the model A well into the 1960`s. The model B was pretty much as we see it nowadays, but without the engraving. I have an FN advert from the 60`s showing illustrations of both models.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-13-2017, 01:16 AM
Lynton

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
UK
Posts: 
56
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gashtyke View Post
The top loader was sold in the UK as the model A well into the 1960`s. The model B was pretty much as we see it nowadays, but without the engraving. I have an FN advert from the 60`s showing illustrations of both models.
That's interesting; is model A & B the official Browning designation for those two rifles?

I see from your previous posts you are in the UK and have a Trombone. I'm hoping to collect my first Trombone today. Out of interest have you ever seen a Remington 24 for sale in the UK? It is on my wish list.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-13-2017, 06:00 AM
gashtyke

Join Date: 
Mar 2014
Posts: 
12
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Hi Lynton,
The model designations seem to be purely an FN marketing device, as far as I know, the toploaders were not sold in the US. The importer to England for FN rifles, pistols and shotguns was Lepersonne, an English company with obvious Belgian connections.
I have a pre-war toploader and also a post war model which differ slightly. The trombone model I have was made in the mid 70`s as far as I can ascertain, I was lucky with this as it had remained in a collector`s cabinet for many years and so is in very good nick.
My favourite SA-22 is a custom shop grade III ---- although signed by the engraver, most of the background work appears to have been done by a laser. An accurate gun and nice to look at. It came with a fitted box and a birth certificate.
I also have a stainless laminate octagon model, Japanese made, accurate but the laminate butt stock makes it slightly butt heavy. This rifle is an ammo gourmet and functions best with high end target ammunition.
No I have never seen a Remmy 24. Good luck with your Trombone.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-14-2017, 10:19 AM
GladesGuy's Avatar
GladesGuy is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2013
Location: 
So. Fla.
Posts: 
4,016
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynton View Post
That's interesting; is model A & B the official Browning designation for those two rifles?

I see from your previous posts you are in the UK and have a Trombone. I'm hoping to collect my first Trombone today. Out of interest have you ever seen a Remington 24 for sale in the UK? It is on my wish list.
The reason the early FN models were not sold in the US is because the Browning Brothers sold the US patent rights to Remington for the Model 24. Only on patent expiry in the 1950s did the FN versions gain access to the US market. I suspect Remington was kept out of the European Market for the same reason with the Model 24. Hence, I suspect that Remington 24s are as rare in Europe as the early FNs are rare here.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-14-2017, 06:03 PM
gashtyke

Join Date: 
Mar 2014
Posts: 
12
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I think GladesGuy is right in this.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-15-2017, 03:07 AM
Lynton

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
UK
Posts: 
56
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
GladesGuy, it looks like I'll have to cross the pond in search of my Model 24. That will make it an expensive acquisition! Nice collection of SAs gashtyke, especially the octagon model. I can be seduced by anything with an octagonal barrel, the older the better.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-15-2017, 05:45 AM
Lynton

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
UK
Posts: 
56
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GladesGuy View Post
The reason the early FN models were not sold in the US is because the Browning Brothers sold the US patent rights to Remington for the Model 24. Only on patent expiry in the 1950s did the FN versions gain access to the US market. I suspect Remington was kept out of the European Market for the same reason with the Model 24. Hence, I suspect that Remington 24s are as rare in Europe as the early FNs are rare here.
Your observation on the Model 24 makes me curious about the Model 241 which was also designed by Browning. I found one here in the UK recently, complete with a Lyman peep sight, but I am not sure how rare they are as I haven't seen any others. While quite a lot of rifles migrated privately from east to west at the end of WW2 I doubt much happened in the other direction.

It would be interesting to know if sales of the Model 241 were restricted over here like the Model 24 seem to be.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-16-2017, 07:53 AM
WalnutBill22 is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
May 2014
Location: 
Jackson, TN
Posts: 
1,673
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Hi Lynton, The Remington M241 is one of my favorite rifles. The basic design is definitely Browning, but it was refined extensively by Remington's Crawford C. Loomis. As a result, it became a somewhat larger, but decidedly better balanced rifle than the Browning or the M24. It was very well made and finished, and is one of the best semiauto .22s of all time.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-16-2017, 03:31 PM
GladesGuy's Avatar
GladesGuy is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2013
Location: 
So. Fla.
Posts: 
4,016
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Lynton, the main reason you will have a difficult time finding a Remington Model 24 is that it was only manufactured from 1922-35. It was much lighter rifle than the FN version and I suspect it did not sell as well as Remington hoped. That is why they introduced the Model 241 (1935-51) which was much closer in size and weight to the FN version, had a 24 inch barrel similar to the bolt action .22 rifles of the period and had an improved barrel tightening system with the nut that adjusts the barrel tightening inside the receiver. Turns out they sold less Model 241s (107K) than the original Model 24 (130K). Bottom line is that neither model is very common. If I were looking for one I'd focus on the model 241 as they are rarer and the sight radius is much better with the longer barrel (forget about any scope options).
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-16-2017, 04:26 PM
Lynton

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
UK
Posts: 
56
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalnutBill22 View Post
Hi Lynton, The Remington M241 is one of my favorite rifles. The basic design is definitely Browning, but it was refined extensively by Remington's Crawford C. Loomis. As a result, it became a somewhat larger, but decidedly better balanced rifle than the Browning or the M24. It was very well made and finished, and is one of the best semiauto .22s of all time.
Hi WalnutBill
I'm encouraged by your endorsement of the M241 as I have yet to shoot the one I bought. I have taken the early Browning SA-22 as a starting point for my collection of semi-autos and I do find its economy of scale and simple lines very appealing. If the Shakers had made guns instead of furniture, this is what I think a Shaker gun should look like!

Stylistically the M241 seems a more obvious successor to the SA-22 than the M24 so I'm glad I could add one to the collection. Maybe it will overtake the old SA-22 in my affections...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-16-2017, 05:34 PM
Lynton

Join Date: 
Oct 2017
Location: 
UK
Posts: 
56
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GladesGuy View Post
Lynton, the main reason you will have a difficult time finding a Remington Model 24 is that it was only manufactured from 1922-35. It was much lighter rifle than the FN version and I suspect it did not sell as well as Remington hoped. That is why they introduced the Model 241 (1935-51) which was much closer in size and weight to the FN version, had a 24 inch barrel similar to the bolt action .22 rifles of the period and had an improved barrel tightening system with the nut that adjusts the barrel tightening inside the receiver. Turns out they sold less Model 241s (107K) than the original Model 24 (130K). Bottom line is that neither model is very common. If I were looking for one I'd focus on the model 241 as they are rarer and the sight radius is much better with the longer barrel (forget about any scope options).
Hi GladesGuy,
it's interesting what you say about the M241 in light of my reply to WalnutBill. If sales of the 24 and 241 were disappointing for Remington, they seem to have done a lot better with the 550/550-1 which appears to have sold in excess of 730K. Do you think their move away from the take down design was a response to the Winchester M74? I have recently acquired both and they look kind of similar.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:11 PM
Iaido
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Aug 2016
Location: 
Colorado
Posts: 
18
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
The lyman peep sight is like hens teeth in the USA, I have a 241 and it shoots great, have fun. Also the barrel is marked 22 long rifle grease

Last edited by Iaido; 11-08-2017 at 09:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:30 PM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x