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  #1  
Old 01-07-2017, 09:38 AM
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H&R model 12 Group Sizes



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Looking for input from those of you who shoot your model 12's for groups on a fairly regular basis. I'm considering buying another one for 50 yard iron sight bench shooting and need to be reasonably certain the rifle would shoot 1/2" or better with good ammunition (Center-X, Eley Black box, R-50 etc.)

I had one a while back but didn't shoot enough to find out what it would do; day in and day out.

Hank
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:33 PM
Wahoo57
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Hank, no one can say with certainty that your 12 will shoot half-inch groups at 50 yards with any kind of ammunition. The 12 was not built for target work, it was designed as a trainer. Some individual samples will shoot half-inch groups with great regularity but they seem to be in the minority. I have shot half-inch groups with my 12 but repeatability is the name of the game and it was a lucky day to shoot more than two such groups in a session. If serious bench shooting is your aim (no pun intended) you will be better off to buy an Anschutz 64 or 54 actioned rifle, a Winchester 52, a Remington 40-X or a Walther KKM. The extra cost of one of these rifles is more than offset but their accuracy capability and resale value. Just my observations and experience. And yes, I have two Anschutz and two Walthers in addition to my 12 so am familiar with all three makes. No matter which rifle you buy, its accuracy can only be determined by you shooting it with various types of ammunition. Use other people's experiences as a guide only, not as the final word on the subject.
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:50 PM
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I appreciate your observations. I'm leaning toward a BSA International MKII instead of the H&R. I've had several of the better rifles you mentioned and all have been capable of the accuracy I need. Just thinking of trying something different. BTW, I'd be shooting with iron sights not a scope, but small groups are still fairly common.
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:53 PM
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I agree with Wahoo57,
I have a H&R M12, a Anschutz54 and a Winchester 52D which I shoot in my clubs 22 matches. We shoot at 50 and 100 yards. And I used scopes on mine as my eyes are just too old for iron sights.

I really like my M12, a nice trigger and a very smooth action. I for one like the heavy stock for the bench. After I gave the bore a good cleaning, it shoots better then when I got it.

On a given day it will hold its own with the Anschutz and 52D. Mine loves Center X, and shoots real good at 100 yards. A lot depends on ammo, you, your setup, the wind,etc. You also need a lot of trigger time with each rifle.

Both the Anschutz and the Winchester are Great rifles, but for half the cost the H&R is a nice gun.

Here is a target at 50 yards using center X, with a Lyman Super target 12 power scope, not perfect, but it's OK.
Five shots on each target.

strangms
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:32 PM
Wahoo57
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Strangms, you posted a message when you put a Lyman Super Targetspot on your 12. I have been trying to call that post up but can't find it. What date did you post it on and was it on this forum?

Attached are some photos I took of my 12 at my club yesterday.

Thanks.
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:59 PM
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That's one shiny 12 . It also has a nice thumb cut , nice work !
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:42 PM
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Wahoo, Is this the one that you are talking about?

strangms

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=736273
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:08 AM
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Smile

Strangms, yes it is. If you noticed in my pics, the M12 is sitting on a Cowan rest. I took your advice and bought one and am really tickled with it. I haven't learned all the tweaks of using it yet but it is coming along. I have to use a front bag with an extra-wide cutout since I have an Anschutz SBR with the extra-wide forearm. I have a regular-width bag but didn't want to get into switching bags when I used my Walthers, which have much narrower forearms so I scrounged up a a piece of 1/2" thick rigid foam and cut a piece to fit the gap between the forearm of the Walthers and the rest. Works like a charm.

I'm going to have to sell the Weaver T-24 shown on the rifle. At 82 my eyes will just not pick up that dot and CH any longer, it is a real struggle. Hate to sell it but Weaver won't change reticles as Leupold will so will be looking for a Leupold as a replacement.
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahoo57 View Post
Hank, no one can say with certainty that your 12 will shoot half-inch groups at 50 yards with any kind of ammunition. The 12 was not built for target work, it was designed as a trainer. Some individual samples will shoot half-inch groups with great regularity but they seem to be in the minority. I have shot half-inch groups with my 12 but repeatability is the name of the game and it was a lucky day to shoot more than two such groups in a session. If serious bench shooting is your aim (no pun intended) you will be better off to buy an Anschutz 64 or 54 actioned rifle, a Winchester 52, a Remington 40-X or a Walther KKM. The extra cost of one of these rifles is more than offset but their accuracy capability and resale value. Just my observations and experience. And yes, I have two Anschutz and two Walthers in addition to my 12 so am familiar with all three makes. No matter which rifle you buy, its accuracy can only be determined by you shooting it with various types of ammunition. Use other people's experiences as a guide only, not as the final word on the subject.
I would suggest all should look up and read the Gov't specs for the M12. They were designed, made, tested and monitored by on-site government inspectors, to Mil-R-1296D and amendment 1 for same.

Yes, the stocks are "clubby" and have an ugly finish but are made to spec.

Sprint
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Old 01-27-2017, 06:03 PM
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Wahoo57,
I know what you mean about the scopes. I be 64 in a few weeks and the Lyman Super target is only a 12 power, On a cloudy day it's a little tough at 100 yards.

I also have a Weaver T24 and T36 and I really like both of them.

strangms
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Old 01-27-2017, 09:16 PM
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beautiful rifle and id be happy with those results these days ,
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:28 PM
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I have an M12 and used it in 50 yard indoor benchrest competition for a number of years. The 10 ring on our targets is .25 of an inch, and with Eley Black Box Match EPS it will give consistent 3 shot groups inside the quarter inch 10 ring when I do my part. Often times a ragged 3 shot hole..... Other folks who have used M12's in our club have had similar results...........
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Old 10-04-2018, 12:02 PM
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I have attached 4 photos taken outdoors on Oct 3 with M12 I recently purchased from Shakey. All are 5 shot groups with Eley Black Box Match ammo at 50 yards with Leupold 6.5-20 Target Dot Scope. I rested the rifle on a Grizzly front rest with bench pad and a rear pad. The Scope Power ranged from 6.5 on #1 & #2 to 10 Pow on #3 and 20 pow on #4. #1 is apprx .4 in C/C #2 is .5, #3 is .5 and #4 is .45. This is my second time out with the rifle and it has a trigger job on it. If I did my part on targets 2 and 4, my groups would have been approximately .20 in.

Well, I Would have attached the photos if I had more time to figure out what a URL is. Sorry.Shakey has seen the photos and can vouch for the two best ones.
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  #14  
Old 10-19-2018, 02:09 AM
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Model 12 Group size

I recently bought a H&R Model 12 to shoot our clubs 50 yard benchrest matches. It has the Redfield Olympic front and rear sights. It shoots good with RWS Target, Eley Black Box Match and Lapua Center-X. . I am thinking about reshaping and refinishing the stock, but I haven't decided what to do on that yet.

These groups were shot at 50 yards.


H&R M12.jpg
M12 Black box group.PNG
RWS Target group m12.PNG

1st group was Eley second RWS
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  #15  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:00 PM
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Real nice groups there......and the rifle looks nice also.

strangms
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