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  #1  
Old 12-24-2019, 01:01 PM
LeShaghal

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ISSC SPA/Steyr RFR...about



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As a long time shooter of toggle guns. (48k rds through my IZH 7-4) I consider myself a pretty good judge of character regarding the breed.

I saw the ISSC SPAs and was instantly ready to buy for our local dueling tree matches.
Time passed, I heard bad things, yada-yada-yada, I bought an Steyr RFR for under $350 figuring I could make it work for that price.
Street price on an IZH 7-2 is $900ish...ouch!

Gun arrived;

Stock is a joke....its flimsy...but a scout gun? So its a flimsy scope mount? how did they get this so wrong?
I'll fill mine with 8lb urethane foam (like a surfboard) and have it for sale cheap in the marketplace if anyone is interested.

The trigger, Out of the box is also a joke, fiddle with the screws and the pull weight is bearable but the break is vague. Fiddle with screws more and it makes a passable 3ish LB 2 stage trigger with a fair amount of take-up in the 1st stage. Its ok, I'm not upset about it.

THE ACTION Here's the real heart-breaker, the gun is make from an extrusion with a low parts count and is Really well engineered price vs quality. I was very pleased with what I saw when I went inside. The toggle and bolt move freely and SNAP open like they should.
(A good toggle link should eject an unfired round 10+ft away! Inertia baby!)


BUT ITS SOOOOO HARD TO CLOSE!!!! why? Why? WHY!????

I preformed a vivisection, THE BOLTS ARE UNGODLY TIGHT!!!! And thats bacause they set the head-space, Toggle engagement, and hold the barrel.

The problem is the firing pin spring! The ISSC action is striker fired and you have to cock the striker in the last 1/4" of bolt travel. so you feel this HUGE resistance as you push forward on the links. (No throwing this thing around like a biathlete) I measured the closing force at 10.2lbs
If you're blessed enough to have bought one of these, hold the gun upside down and cycle the action with the trigger held back. This is how IT SHOULD FEEL same force to close as it takes to open.

IF it were a hammer gun, it would cock on opening. Using the SNAP inertia of the links coming over center as they come out of battery to cock the hammer.
But as it stands, its as hard (or harder) to close than a T-BOLT.


And that's the 1-2 punch that's knocking this thing onto clearance racks. A bad plastic stock and a striker firing action that negates the advantages the toggle link.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So here are some pointers for any manufacturer thinking of making a Toggle gun.

1> Make the grip vertical, the idea is you cycle the action with a flick of the wrist. Make a "C" with you forefinger and thumb and bounce the action open-closed while the other 3 fingers stay planted on the grip. (The action resembles going from a pointed index finger to a "thumbs up" and back again.)
The toggle plays to two crowds: Target and Tacticool Silencer types, we'll both tolerate a 0-deg grip angle

2>give us a savage mkii quality trigger. It doesn't have to be great, but give us a decent jumping off point at a moderate price

3>Stock Plenty of spare mags and keep them under $30 (10shot min) This is a speed oriented demographic. We want more bullets!

4>Spend time on the toggle interface!!!
Give us something ergonomic to hold onto! Look at the IZH 7-4 and copy it. it puts and inch of material between the Thumb and Forefinger so your "C" stays open. With just a vertical pin we have to pinch it and then the hand is frozen in place and that forces the hand off the grip. The vertical pin works on the Anschutz Fortner action because its smooth enough to "Throw" back with the trigger finger and the thumb pushes the rear of the bolt. The motion is linear....here its a radius! the pin wont work here. Neither pinching nor knuckling the links is faster than a bolt gun.
The 7-2, ISSC, and Summit all get this WRONG!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ISSC/RFR gets the trigger and mag right...sort of, but it flunks on basic principle and stock design.
Pity, I had high hopes.

There's money to be made in toggle guns, we're crying out for them.....but no one's listening, and the ones who are....aren't thinking.
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  #2  
Old 12-24-2019, 02:52 PM
izhm is online now
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Can you post some pictures ?
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2019, 08:58 AM
LeShaghal

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What, specifically, would you like to see?
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Old 12-26-2019, 09:12 AM
izhm is online now
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The whole rifle left ,right side , the receiver , bolt and the barreled action if possible .
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2019, 10:43 AM
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Plenty of pics and a video here:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...t-pull-action/

Almost bought one a year ago. From your description, glad I didn't!
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:50 AM
nodak is online now
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I have an ISSC SPA in 17hmr. I will admit that in the 3 years I've had it, it remains NIB unfired. I have the wood stocked version which has a very euro feel and look to it and it is a good solid base for the gun. My trigger was able to be adjusted very light and very crisp. Actually love the trigger. I assume that it is reasonably accurate but there are not much info being shared on the net about these or rge Steyr. I did see that most hate the Steyr stock as well as the synthetic on the ISSC. I did take it out of the stock ounce with plans to remove barrel and have it cut and threaded.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:49 AM
LeShaghal

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modification has begun

I've got to fix this thing without spending a heap on it
so here'es the list

-vertical grip (mpa, or casting taken from MPA)
-New stock (skeleton)
-New forearm (Tubular, free float)
-Center chassis to hold it all together.

I got an MPA grip for a whopping $50 (silicone molds and castings to follow when work slows down)

Ace skeleton stock for $30

Bought a 4d maglight on ebay for $24, stole the tube and upgraded my home flashlight to LED

Waiting on my aluminum from mcmaster carr to mill the chassis


Last edited by LeShaghal; 01-17-2020 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:19 PM
nodak is online now
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PM coming your way about that custom chassis thing.
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2020, 12:25 PM
LeShaghal

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Improvements

Aluminum arrived, The main tube is cut, squared, milled from a box to a channel and its now up on the mill being inlet-ted for for the trigger and magwell (in orange in the drawing)

The drawing looks crude but it's all that's required to make the parts.

Was held up Assembling a lilja barreled toggle link Volquartsen for a fellow club member and it too has the vertical "Pin" so I'm working to 3d print some different shapes for both rifles and find a standard interface for cycling the toggle with the motion mentioned in earlier posts.

Finding a 10/22 stock with the appropriate vertical grip was tricky. the Bell&Carlson anschutz stock was the best turnkey option with the vertical face of the grip being a little too far rearward for easy action. A Kidd straight blade trigger helped move the trigger rearward to accommodate this offset. now only the pin remains to be updated, more to follow on that at a later date.

On the Steyr,
With the main tube finished today I can move on to machining the front forearm support.
The rear block for the grip/stock has proved a little more complex than Id've liked but steady progress is being made. Hoping to have the whole thing wrapped up before the 14th.

Unresolved:
trigger guard, secondary concern
need to find or wind a reduced power mainspring. This will ease the cocking effort that makes this thing such a monster

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