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  #1  
Old 08-26-2019, 11:38 AM
timlt

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Complete AR .22lr uppers: CMMG vs TacSol



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Looking for a complete AR .22 upper to run on on my AR lower. Basic things I'm looking for: better-than-average accuracy, feeding/firing reliability, use of standard (Black Dog) mags if possible, and ability to run on a milspec AR15 lower that has a Geissele SSA trigger.

This does not need to be something like a high end service rifle/match upper, like those produced by Compass Lake. I would like to find something accurate--let's say capable of sub 1" groups at 50 yards with ammo it likes--but not 'match' accuracy. I'd just get a S&W M&P 15-22 and be done with it--I used to have one and enjoyed it--but consistently found they are not accurate enough and this is a very common critique of these rifles.

A few candidates that look interesting, based on reviews I've found:
* CMMG Resolute 300 upper
* Tactical Solutions AR-22 LT upper

Does anyone have firsthand experience with either of these (the current models)? Or know of a similar complete upper I should check out?
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Old 08-26-2019, 11:53 AM
octanejunkie

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I have an older CMMG dedicated upper and I have a PSA / CMMG dedicated upper. Both work and function identically and very well.

Tac Sol is very similar but is not compatible with most of the bolt hold open and magazine options out there today, hence CMMG has become the defacto standard of the contemporary offerings.

PSA had an upper like the CMMG you linked not too long ago for half the price, they use the CMMG bolt and barrel collar, I'm not sure who's barrels there using because they are stamped or marked PSA but all commercial 22LR barrels seem to have 1: 16 twists and perform very similarly.

Do your research in this section of the forum, there are a ton of threads on all of the options and upgrades and servicability and interchangeability of parts. Have fun and good luck!

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Old 08-26-2019, 12:18 PM
VASCAR2
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The biggest disadvantage to Tactical solutions are the proprietary parts whereas you can find firing pins, extractors and other parts for the CMMG pattern from numerous sources. As mentioned you can use a CMMG pattern bolt with Better Mag Adapter or Catch 22 for a functional bolt catch.

Right to bear has about the best prices I’ve seen for CMMG pattern bolts and barrels. If your wanting better than rack grade barrel look at Beyer Barrels or Lothar Walther 22 LR barrels.

It is very easy to assemble 22 LR upper since they are blow back and there is no gas system. Lowers are also easily assembled if you want a complete AR-15. It is hard to beat the prices of Palmetto State Armory if your wanting to buy assembled uppers and lowers.

http://beyerbarrels.com/barrels/ar15_barrels

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...h-bcg-ch1.html


https://www.righttobear.com/22LR-par...ies-s/1873.htm


https://www.lothar-walther.com/ar10a...els-stock/?p=1

Last edited by VASCAR2; 08-26-2019 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 08-26-2019, 12:58 PM
timlt

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Ah, thank you both for the tips. Probably saved me an hour or more of wading thru old threads. I had already started but wasn't getting to the basic stuff I wanted to know.

It sounds like I will go CMMG, not only because they are one of the current leaders in the current market, but also because their components are more standardized/compatible compared to TacSol. That's exactly what I needed to know.

So....I like the looks of their new "Resolute" uppers, which comes at 3 levels and price points: 100/200/300. They have a nice rail, the upper receiver of course, and their bolt. Personally I want to just get to shooting with this thing, I've already built a new lower (based on an Aero M4E1 receiver) recently and have all the parts I want including trigger.

Given the info you added about barrels: Would it make sense--rather than spending the extra coin for a "Resolute 300" upper and getting a barrel whose origin I know nothing about--to instead, buy their cheapest upper (the 100), just shoot it for a bit and wring it out, then buy one of the known quality barrels like those you listed and upgrade it?
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Old 08-26-2019, 02:08 PM
zukiphile
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FWIW, OJ and Vascar have given you a bottom line conclusion that summarizes hundreds of posts worth of reading and years of experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timlt View Post
Given the info you added about barrels: Would it make sense--rather than spending the extra coin for a "Resolute 300" upper and getting a barrel whose origin I know nothing about--to instead, buy their cheapest upper (the 100), just shoot it for a bit and wring it out, then buy one of the known quality barrels like those you listed and upgrade it?
In your position, I would not buy the Resolute upper and then take it apart. I would just build another upper, or start with just building an upper with all the parts I want. The Resolute upper come with a medium taper 17 inch barrel, likely an excellent compromise between reasonable weight and good stiffness.

I will note this about my CMMG barrels. They all have loose chambers, are very reliable, and are quite accurate with the ammunition they prefer.

Last edited by zukiphile; 08-26-2019 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:21 PM
octanejunkie

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Zuk knows

If you are itching to get started and don't mind building then grab a CMMG barrel and bolt kit from brownells, add an upper of your choice and get a handguard - literally any will do. Add a charging handle and muzzle device and done.

PSA also sells these complete for about $300. I post them when I see them but they are basically the same upper you can build yourself. Here's a link to look at:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/cata...?q=.22lr+upper

$350 labor day complete 22lr upper
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...516446934.html

Jump on that second link. It won't last.

Last edited by octanejunkie; 08-26-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-26-2019, 05:46 PM
timlt

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Quote:
Originally Posted by octanejunkie View Post
Zuk knows

If you are itching to get started and don't mind building then grab a CMMG barrel and bolt kit from brownells, add an upper of your choice and get a handguard - literally any will do. Add a charging handle and muzzle device and done.

PSA also sells these complete for about $300. I post them when I see them but they are basically the same upper you can build yourself. Here's a link to look at:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/cata...?q=.22lr+upper

$350 labor day complete 22lr upper
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...516446934.html

Jump on that second link. It won't last.
What kind of accuracy have you been able to get with this PSA?
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  #8  
Old 08-26-2019, 05:49 PM
octanejunkie

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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlt View Post
What kind of accuracy have you been able to get with this PSA?
Same as CMMG, depends on the shooter, lower and ammo

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  #9  
Old 08-26-2019, 06:16 PM
zukiphile
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I don't have any PSA sourced barrels, though the consensus is that these are CMMG barrels. PSA are M4 profile barrels, my least favorite profile. With Aguila SV, my M4 barrel will put 10 inside an inch, i.e. coverable with a quarter.

My 20 A2 profile will do the same, and the heavy taper barrels will do a bit better. All of these are free floated. None of that is going to impress benchrest competitors. All of them are good enough that I can shoot from any position that doesn't involve a rest, and I know the miss is me.

For freakish accuracy, I resort to the Lothar Walther.

I don't like the free float handguards used by CMMG and PSA, and I don't like upper receivers with the forward assist, so I've never purchased a complete upper from either. Those are just my preferences. They don't mean you shouldn't buy an upper from either outfit. If you have the tools to disassemble an upper, you can also build one just as you would like it.
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Old 08-26-2019, 08:15 PM
VASCAR2
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The heart of any AR-15 in regards to accuracy is the barrel, then a usable trigger and clear sights or optics. CMMG, PSA or RTB are rack grade barrels and it is luck of the draw on accuracy. Ammo makes a huge difference in 22 rimfire and my two CMMG M-4 profile barrels are decent with CCI Standard Velocity or Aguila Super Extra plated 40 grain high velocity.

I normally shoot steel plates or CQB drills with my CMMG M-4 barrel rimfire AR-15ís. My target rimfire AR-15ís are free floated barrels and my most accurate is a DPMS bull barrel with Geissele G2S trigger. My other 22 AR-15ís have RRA NM triggers.

If your wanting to shoot tiny groups on paper targets buy a Beyer or Lothar Walther barrel. If your going to shoot fast at steel or do CQB Drills most of the time the rack grade barrels are fine.
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Old 08-26-2019, 08:58 PM
VASCAR2
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This was DPMS Gen 1 Upper where I replaced the barrel/bolt with a CMMG barrel/bolt. I purchased a lower I assembled with RRA NM trigger and LPK.





DPMS Gen 1 Bull Barrel upper with BDM Colt/DPMS 30 round mag.



Here is another picture of the Gen 1 DPMS Bull barrel with ten round DPMS mag.




My Kurt’s Kustom Firearms (KKF) upper on a lower with RRA NM. This barrel is 1:16 twist rimfire barrel and will work with any 22 conversion kit with chamber insert, (Colt, Ciener, CMMG, Spike’s, Target Master M-261 or Air Force kit).



Another picture of the KKF with Ciener conversion and BDM Mag.



Here is a picture of my Gen 1 DPMS upper before converting it to a CMMG barrel and bolt. The DPMS Gen 1 only had ten round mags for many years. I used this 22 AR-15 for many years for CQB training since I was issued an AR-15 at work.



Here is a picture of my current 22 training rifle. A CMMG upper set up like my Duty rifle. In the picture from left to right my old duty rifle 16” 5.56, my 16” 6.5 Grendel and my 22 LR CMMG. I like three point sling but keep the other CMMG 22 LR AR-15 with two point sling for my lefty friends and family.


Last edited by VASCAR2; 08-27-2019 at 09:46 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2019, 09:07 PM
VASCAR2
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I posted the pictures of my four 22 LR AR-15ís to show how rimfire AR-25ís can be addictive but can be specialized.

Here is a conversion kit test I did a few years ago and shows typical groups with 22 rimfire at 50 yards. This might help you decide what you want your AR-15 to do.


https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=754849

I bought my first rimfire AR-15 in the mid 90ís and have gone through hundreds of bricks of 22ís.
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  #13  
Old 08-26-2019, 09:19 PM
zukiphile
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Indeed. I may be more impressed by the rack grade barrels than you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VASCAR2 View Post
If your going to shoot fast at steel or do CQB Drills most of the time the rack grade barrels are fine.
I had a Feddersen barrel in a nice tight 10/22 receiver and I could get inch and a quarter groups with Aguila SV in 100 yard testing. In the 10/22 world, there are lot of variables influencing accuracy, including stock screw torque and location of a barrel pressure pad. The chamber was tight enough that Winchester 45gr wouldn't feed, but I could shoot a round if I manually pressed the bolt handle forward. After firing, I needed a screwdriver or knife to get it out.

My first AR in 22lr had the CMMG 16.1 inch heavy taper barrel. Winchester 45gr wouldn't stay in the chamber if I pointed the barrel upward. I screwed it together like any other AR, and took it to the range. That barrel shot inch and a quarter groups with Aguila SV in 100 yard testing. No figuring out where to put a pressure pad, or taping the receiver, etc. It just worked.

Maybe I'm just easily impressed. Yes, I can get better accuracy from the Lothar Walther* if I'm shooting from a good solid rest. If not, the difference between three-quarters of inch and a quarter inch at 50 yards is difficult to discern in my hands.

_____________________
*I bought the LW barrel on your recommendation. I'm glad I did. It's the equal of my old BRNO4.

Last edited by zukiphile; 08-27-2019 at 09:05 AM.
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  #14  
Old 08-28-2019, 06:14 PM
RWBlue01
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TimLT, I went with the AR-22 SB-X, back when I could only get it with Keymod. It is as accurate as I am with Green tag.

The only part which has broke is the charge handle and my scope.

As you can see from the images. Way down yonder are the targets. The targets. Me playing with the knobs to make a box.
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