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  #1  
Old 09-24-2011, 06:40 AM
Silver78
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Why are Annies more popular than Coopers?



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Title says it all - any ideas?
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  #2  
Old 09-24-2011, 07:05 AM
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They shoot better. Competition shoots don't care about name, cost, or anything else.


NC Buckeye
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:17 AM
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Annies vs Coopers

Ditto Mr. NC Buckeye.

noremf(George)
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  #4  
Old 09-24-2011, 07:31 AM
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On the scene way longer,with a product proven countless times.(and I think the 54 action is more durable than the 57M)
They offer basically two lines-a sub 1000 and a pricier one.1000 is a price barrier for a lot of guys.Many of those who buy the 64 action guns long for the 54, and eventually get one.
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
They shoot better. Competition shoots don't care about name, cost, or anything else.


NC Buckeye
I would disagree. I would say some Annies are easier to shoot for some people,but as far as the gun goes, they are both pretty darn accurate. I have been to a lot of local shoots and have seen the Coop's kick butt one night and the Annie's the next. When you get to the quality of both of these rifles, the guy pulling the trigger makes the most differnce. Another reason for seeing fewer Coopers is,if you want a Cooper, you generally have to wait 3-6 months for one. An Annie you can pick up or have one ordered in a few days. Just my 2cents. Oh and I own a Cooper!!!!
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
They shoot better. Competition shoots don't care about name, cost, or anything else.


NC Buckeye
Right on....
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:31 AM
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I own several Cooper 22lr's and even more Anschutz 54 sporter and 54 target actions. My most accurate is a 2013 action in an aluminum stock. The Cooper's are all sporters and are as accurate as my 54 sporters.
I think the Anschutz popularity is due to a proven design, well known (been around alot longer than Cooper), variety of models offered and more competition models offered. A competition shooter is more apt to spend $1000 - $2500 for a rifle than someone looking for a squirrel gun.
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  #8  
Old 09-24-2011, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by J*CF View Post
I own several Cooper 22lr's and even more Anschutz 54 sporter and 54 target actions. My most accurate is a 2013 action in an aluminum stock. The Cooper's are all sporters and are as accurate as my 54 sporters.
I think the Anschutz popularity is due to a proven design, well known (been around alot longer than Cooper), variety of models offered and more competition models offered. A competition shooter is more apt to spend $1000 - $2500 for a rifle than someone looking for a squirrel gun.
Sir you are very misinformed You might want to look at the rifles alot of the fellas on the squirrel hunters thread spend on them. I bought 1 Cooper and probably will not buy another, I think the Jackson Hunter could be the Ultimate Squirrel Rifle perfect for us HARDCORE hunters, no worry about the effects of insect repellent rain, sweat and the scars from using trees as rests. But with my problem with my one Cooper compared to the over twenty Anschutz I have owned with no problems I cannot see paying $1700.00 for a rifle waiting 3-5 months for it and then have to send it back on my dime to make it right makes me shy away from them. I really really want a Jackson Hunter in 17 HM2 but do not want to take a chance.
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Old 09-24-2011, 11:48 AM
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[QUOTE=22 man;3646636]Sir you are very misinformed You might want to look at the rifles alot of the fellas on the squirrel hunters thread spend on them. I bought 1 Cooper and probably will not buy another, I think the Jackson Hunter could be the Ultimate Squirrel Rifle perfect for us HARDCORE hunters, no worry about the effects of insect repellent rain, sweat and the scars from using trees as rests. But with my problem with my one Cooper compared to the over twenty Anschutz I have owned with no problems I cannot see paying $1700.00 for a rifle waiting 3-5 months for it and then have to send it back on my dime to make it right makes me shy away from them. I really really want a Jackson Hunter in 17 HM2 but do not want to take a chance. [/QUOTe
I have a question. I really don't mean to come off being smart. When you have a problem with an Annie where do you send it back to? I know they have problems too. Do you send them back to Annie? Like I said I am not being smart I may have missed something somewhere. Where do you send them?
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:23 PM
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[QUOTE=Cooper4141;3646668]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22 man View Post
Sir you are very misinformed You might want to look at the rifles alot of the fellas on the squirrel hunters thread spend on them. I bought 1 Cooper and probably will not buy another, I think the Jackson Hunter could be the Ultimate Squirrel Rifle perfect for us HARDCORE hunters, no worry about the effects of insect repellent rain, sweat and the scars from using trees as rests. But with my problem with my one Cooper compared to the over twenty Anschutz I have owned with no problems I cannot see paying $1700.00 for a rifle waiting 3-5 months for it and then have to send it back on my dime to make it right makes me shy away from them. I really really want a Jackson Hunter in 17 HM2 but do not want to take a chance. [/QUOTe
I have a question. I really don't mean to come off being smart. When you have a problem with an Annie where do you send it back to? I know they have problems too. Do you send them back to Annie? Like I said I am not being smart I may have missed something somewhere. Where do you send them?
You can start the you know what all you want ,but honestly I have not had a problem with one to send back, but I know a couple of guys who were well taken care of by the IMPORTERS OR THE ACTUAL COMPANY THEY BOUGHT IT FROM. Sir the OP ask why Annies are more popular than Coopers, it has been mentioned Anschutz is a tried and proven product since 1963 when they were first imported by Savage, they have a WORLD WIDE REPUTATION for quality as well as desirebility. With todays economy and the fact that my money is wisely spent I will stay with what has served me best in the past. To be honest I do not NEED a new rifle but I would LIKE another HIGH QUALITY 17 HM2 in a configuration like my Anschutz 1702 in a McMillian Stock.Or for that matter a nice Laminate stock like the JSR.
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camster View Post
On the scene way longer,with a product proven countless times.(and I think the 54 action is more durable than the 57M)
They offer basically two lines-a sub 1000 and a pricier one.1000 is a price barrier for a lot of guys.Many of those who buy the 64 action guns long for the 54, and eventually get one.
Was down at NJFG yesterday. He's carrying Anschutz now. Had 3 on the shelf. One was the new 223 model and one was a 22 LR in Meistergrade with real nice wood. All were 54 actions. All were over 2K.
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:37 PM
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64---54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camster View Post
On the scene way longer,with a product proven countless times.(and I think the 54 action is more durable than the 57M)
They offer basically two lines-a sub 1000 and a pricier one.1000 is a price barrier for a lot of guys.Many of those who buy the 64 action guns long for the 54, and eventually get one.
Camster,
I have a few rimfires one of my 64's out shoots 3 other 54's that I have. All are sporter models.
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  #13  
Old 09-24-2011, 09:47 PM
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Why are Annies more popular than Coopers?

Because, they will out shoot, out perform, out last, hold more value, cost less for what you get, and be more honest in their test targets.

I have never seen a Cooper own a world record.

Your mileage may vary.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:58 AM
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Let's look at this realistically rather than emotionally.

Anschutz has been making firearms for over 150 years, Cooper has been making rifles for about 25 years.

Anschutz has over 250 employees and a also subsidary company that makes target shooting accessories, Cooper has around 40 employees and makes only rifles.

Anschutz focuses on the target rifle community and uses the wins there to get focus on their other products, not unlike the auto companies use NASCAR to pimp their products. The only dedicated competition rifle Cooper makes is an entry level benchrest rifle in 22 lr.

I have owned and competed with numerous Anschutz rifles in both position shooting and silhouette over the past 30 years. The position rifles are a dedicated shooting machine, refined for one particular discipline, their sporter rifles are the same products that they have sold for many years (with slight variations in triggers and stocks). Cooper rifles are sold as sporting rifles (hunting) rifles, their bread and butter rifles are around $1500 - a 1710 sporter is in the same price range as a Cooper. An Anschutz in a varmint caliber is around $2200, quite bit higher than the standard grade Cooper Varmint calibered rifles.

I have lost count of how many Anshutz sporters I have owned, mostly based on 54 actions, a couple of the sporters were Meistergrades, and none of them compared in fit, finish or wood qualiy to any of my standard grade Cooper. Yes, the Anschutz triggers generally are more adjustable but are also more complicated and have a greater potential to fail (usually spring breakage). Wheras the Cooper has a simpler trigger mechanism less likely to have failures.

To state that one rifle is going to outlast the other or that one is significantly more accurate than the other shows a certain amount of either naivete or prejudice, or perhaps lack of understanding of design differences. If one takes time to study the Cooper 57M action it is obvious that it is a design that uses many of the best principles of numerous actions. For instance the extractors are pinned and use coil springs rather than held in place by a spring clip arrangement, certainly a superior arrangement. The tang on the Cooper spreads the bedding surface over a wider area giving more support area. The bolt firing pin mechanism of both rifles is very similar in design with no real advantage of one over the other, just slightly different approches to the design. Anschutz barrels are pressed and pinned, Cooper barrels are threaded (in actuality most top-end competitors using Anschutz are using after market barrels and have had the receivers threaded so they can accept a threaded barrel). The Anschutz actions are tempered only in the barrel and locking lug area using the induction method, the Cooper action is the same hardness throughout - both methods work, but once again just different approaches and there is no overwhelming evidence that in a rimfire action one method is superior to the other.

If it were possible to take a random sampling of Anschutz sporters and Cooper sporters, say 25 of each ,and shoot them enough to get a valid statistical analysis it is doubtful that there would be enough difference in accuracy to even squabble about. What should be more important is how the rifle fits you and how it handles for you not whose name is on it.

I will make what may be perceived as a negative comment regarding Anschutz but it is meant to illustrate that any company can let something not quite right leave the factory with a fault. I have had two new, out of the box 1710 sporters that the safetys were completely inoperable on - these were the wing type safties and they could not be forced into the on position. Both rifles were replaced but how did they leave the factory like this? Simple they are made by humans and humans make errors! So just because someone may have had a problem with either an Anschutz or a Cooper does not mean that they total product line is faulty, or that the other manufacturers line is superior, and is no reason to condemn either manufacturer.

What it comes down to the end is that there is no point in denigratiing one manufacturers product over the other, it is simply a Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge thing. Buy the one you lilke, hopefully be happy with it and life goes on. If it is necessary for someone to run down another persons choice in order to feel better about their choice they have more problems than a perceived bad product.

drover

Last edited by drover; 09-25-2011 at 12:51 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:59 PM
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Cool

"To state that one rifle is going to outlast the other or that one is significantly more accurate than the other shows a certain amount of either naievte or prejudice, or perhaps lack of engineering principles. "

You hit the nail on the head with the prejudice, I had one Cooper that the extractors broke on three times, and I sent it back for function problems four times, It never was repaired. I got very tired of using a long set of tweezers to remove the empty cases from the receiver.

I won't go into the troubles I had with the second one owned, and the last....

"naievte " I guess I am too......

I always wanted to be a drama queen, but I could never afford the surgery.

Donations will be appreciated.....


"If it is necessary for someone to run down another persons choice in order to feel better about their choice they have more problems than a perceived bad product."

Stating a personal opinion is not running down anything. Free speech is a freedom we all enjoy...

From your post I see you have vast engineering knowledge, along with the ability to diagnose mental problems associated with my choice of product and view slanted by bad experiences with the

Cooper product line.

I spoke from my personal experiences with both firms...In essence we just disagree, and to do so adds diversity to this board...

Stating a preference with the disclaimer as I did..."Your Mileage May Vary......does not mean I am deranged....or having any kind of problems. Happy Shooting !

Last edited by gr8guns; 09-25-2011 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Add information
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