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Old 05-25-2011, 05:55 PM
shockeere

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NOT ALL VMAX BRANDS THE SAME! (proof inside)



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I cracked open a couple rounds, a winchester vmax and a hornady vmax and I poured the contents into my coffee lid

Winchester on the right, Hornady on the left.



Discuss.

Last edited by shockeere; 05-25-2011 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 05-25-2011, 06:15 PM
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Go find two rounds from two more different lots and do the same thing, you're learning about "canister grade" powders, bought in bulk, tested for burn rate an then adjusted to produce a desired output. Hardly uncommon in factory ammunition.
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Old 05-25-2011, 06:37 PM
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Inetersting...but I need more.
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Old 05-25-2011, 08:34 PM
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That is why brand X shoot different than brand Y. Same bullet, differet powder, different primer comound, different brass.
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Old 05-25-2011, 08:42 PM
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There are at least 3 or 4 companies loading HMRs at the moment

A cut and paste from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_HMR

A growing number of companies offer .17 HMR ammunition. CCI Ammunition loads all of the .17 HMR ammunition for the CCI, Federal Cartridge, Hornady, and Remington brands. However, the ammunition is loaded with different bullets to different specifications.[5] Ammunition is also available from Winchester, PMC and Sellier & Bellot.
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:12 PM
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Sellier & Belliot stopped production 4 years ago, I've never seen a round of PMC .17 hmr, and would think if they made it the ammo would have turned up somewhere. My understanding has always been that Winchester has always been produced by ATK same as the rest. I'm wrong on a regular basis but I don't think so this time. What you have to remember about Wikipedia is that for years anyone could modify a entry and did, I wouldn't put much faith in that info myself but its up to the you what you want to believe.
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Old 05-25-2011, 10:16 PM
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interesting.

but the real question is, which shoots better..

I just got a box of hornady and a new scope I haven't tried yet.. can't wait for the wind to die down. I might pick up a box of vmax CCI to test against, its always been the best shooting for me.
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Old 05-25-2011, 11:46 PM
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Couple of years ago the H was Lil Gun powder so I've read.
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:13 AM
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My Cooper is noticeably more accurate with the Winchester Supreme loads.

Quote:
My understanding has always been that Winchester has always been produced by ATK same as the rest. I'm wrong on a regular basis but I don't think so this time.
It might be loaded by the same company, but weighing out loaded rounds, the Winchester Supreme loads weigh about 2.7 grains more than the Hornady or Federal loads, so obviously, there is a difference in loads..

Last edited by stubblejumper; 05-26-2011 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd1950 View Post
Sellier & Belliot stopped production 4 years ago, I've never seen a round of PMC .17 hmr, and would think if they made it the ammo would have turned up somewhere. My understanding has always been that Winchester has always been produced by ATK same as the rest. I'm wrong on a regular basis but I don't think so this time. What you have to remember about Wikipedia is that for years anyone could modify a entry and did, I wouldn't put much faith in that info myself but its up to the you what you want to believe.
I'll agree as to what is on wikpedia should not be took as wrote in stone.But I also have seen all brands in that quote mentioned else where except PMC and was told Winchester did its own loading.I was unaware SB stopped loading HMR .I have been wrong many times and could be this time
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Old 05-26-2011, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole' Man River View Post
Years ago I bought all of the S&B .17HMR ammo that Natchez had in stock and apparently that was all they ever received and it was never restocked.
It had a lime green tip. Really consistant and accurate.
I managed to get first two boxes and later a brick, and you are absolutely correct, very accurate.
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:00 AM
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All 17HMR V-max is the same

According to a sticky at 17HMR.net (quoted below) the only difference is the color of the tip.

"CCI, Federal, Winchester, Remington and Hornady all loaded here at CCIpaint in Lewiston, Idaho with a V-max bullet are identical, with the exception of tip color. Manufactured on the same equip, to the same ballistic specs, using the same components other than color of the tip of the bullets. Obviously the shellcase 'head stamp' and packaging would be different on the various products.

Linda Olin
CCI/Speer Technical Services
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501""
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:50 AM
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My particular Marlin 917VS shoots Hornady and Winchester 17 gr. loads into the same spot on the target with the same sized groups. That's really all I care about.
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Old 05-26-2011, 01:26 PM
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That's what I've heard too. But according to real world evidence (see picture above) the components are different. That might be old information and things might have changed since then, but I refuse to believe that they are manufactured with the same components. Just look at the picture?

Al, I recall hearing that the 17hmr loads use lil gun powder too, which looks like what hornady is using for that load, not the winchester ball powder stuff.

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Originally Posted by Cav View Post
According to a sticky at 17HMR.net (quoted below) the only difference is the color of the tip.

"CCI, Federal, Winchester, Remington and Hornady all loaded here at CCIpaint in Lewiston, Idaho with a V-max bullet are identical, with the exception of tip color. Manufactured on the same equip, to the same ballistic specs, using the same components other than color of the tip of the bullets. Obviously the shellcase 'head stamp' and packaging would be different on the various products.

Linda Olin
CCI/Speer Technical Services
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501""
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Old 05-26-2011, 03:13 PM
Monsterbishi

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shockeere View Post
That's what I've heard too. But according to real world evidence (see picture above) the components are different. That might be old information and things might have changed since then, but I refuse to believe that they are manufactured with the same components. Just look at the picture?
As has already been explained on page one, this happens frequently with bulk loading, the manufacturer orders a powder, tests it, then blends it to bring it up/down to their required speed and pressure level.
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