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  #1  
Old 09-15-2021, 09:20 PM
chuck40219
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IMR 4064



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Question: do powders gain strength as they age?

I loaded 20 30-30 shells with some IMR 4064 that I have had for 35 years or so, I know I had it before 1978. Load consisted of Remington brass, CCI Large Rifle Primer, Hornady 150 gr bullet, and powder starting at 31 gr up to 33 gr. Most accurate load was 31.5 gr. I stopped at the 33 gr load, and later pulled the bullet and checked the powder weight 33gr on both beam and electronic scale.

Seemed to be a little hard to eject cases, later checked and primers were flattened not to bad though. The brass was what caught my attention when I was punching out the used primers though. Looks like impressions of the powder not pressed into the brass like dirty chamber but pressed out from the inside of the case.

Have not shot this rifle in a long time, so can not comment on recoil. Marlin 336 rifle, giving it to my son in law this fall.

Have 200 pieces of brass to load.

Any comments. I have some Varget here but not enough to load all the brass I have. Not sure I want to continue with the IMR 4064.

I can try to get a photo of the brass tomorrow if it would help.

chuck40219
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Old 09-15-2021, 10:08 PM
PigButtons
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That is a long time for powder that had been opened to sit around. Sealed container may be a different story. Does the powder smell like it should, assuming you haven't had covid lately?

Is the load manual that you looked up your data in from the same period as the powder? Companies change formulas all the time and sometimes they have to update the load data to match.

You could start lower like around 25gr and see if the problem of flattened primers persist. Also how clean is the gun and how do you know? A carbon ring at the chamber to case mouth intersection can cause this type of problem as well, where you get pressure indicators well ahead of where you'd expect. It comes from the carbon ring pinching the case mouth closed so that the case can't open normally to release the bullet and there is a abnormal pressure spike. The only way to see if it is clean is with a bore scope. The Teslong is still very affordable and much higher quality than the price would indicate.

I hope this helps and please stay safe.
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Old 09-16-2021, 05:12 AM
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When reloading the .30-30 Win. I found the best powder is WW-748.
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Old 09-16-2021, 09:14 AM
Phish4one

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RL7 gives me great groups in my 30-30’s and I highly recommend it.
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Old 09-16-2021, 10:37 AM
870TC
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I have shot a lot of old powder, still shooting 4831 that was left over/surplus from WW2. It does seem to run a little "hotter", so I never use top end loads. Usually start 5 grains or less than the top loads listed in the manual.
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Old 09-16-2021, 10:43 AM
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l found 3 reloading book that coincides with the around the year your power was made it's Sierra vol.2 Hornady and PO Ackely Pocket Manual from what l see your in the ball park but near the high end back off your loads start with 28g lMR 4064 and end at 31.5g being that was your most accurate load 29 to 31.5 could be your best loads for that rifle.
lf your power is IMR power you should still have a faint smell of ether, l know my IMR from the 70s still have a trace of it.
Here is my findings from the my old books. Books are only a starting point.

l'm still using power from the mid 70s have a 12lb keg Rem. 700X now half full for my Marlin 1894 in 375 fun plinking found.
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Last edited by lefty222; 09-16-2021 at 10:55 AM.
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  #7  
Old 09-16-2021, 05:41 PM
chuck40219
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thanks for all the replies

PigButtons to respond to you first:

That is a long time for powder that had been opened to sit around. Sealed container may be a different story. Does the powder smell like it should, assuming you haven't had covid lately?

No covid here that I am aware of. Yes it had been opened, same powder I used when I started loading the 30-30. Never used it for anything else. It does smell like powder.

Is the load manual that you looked up your data in from the same period as the powder? Companies change formulas all the time and sometimes they have to update the load data to match.

It is a new manual, and I never thought of the change 35 years will make.

You could start lower like around 25gr and see if the problem of flattened primers persist. Also how clean is the gun and how do you know? A carbon ring at the chamber to case mouth intersection can cause this type of problem as well, where you get pressure indicators well ahead of where you'd expect. It comes from the carbon ring pinching the case mouth closed so that the case can't open normally to release the bullet and there is a abnormal pressure spike. The only way to see if it is clean is with a bore scope. The Teslong is still very affordable and much higher quality than the price would indicate.


I will start at a lower charge when I restart this project. Some one further down in the thread has looked at some older manuals and the loads in that manual is much lighter that what my manual starts at.

The gun was and is clean at least what I can tell. It does shoot the old factory ammo I have fine. And yes I have thought of getting a bore scope but have not ordered on yet

Thank you


DRS & Phish4one:
As you both know different powers are hard to come by right now.

Thank you

870TC:
I don't even know if I have heard of that powder. I load so I can shoot more. Reloading is not a hobby of mine. My good friend goes at reloading as a hobby, I would rather shoot. I did reload 250 357 mag. yesterday and 30 45-70. The 45-70 with black powder, the 357 with Trail Boss. I have plenty of those two. As for starting with less powder I am all for that. The new manual has starting loads at old time max charges. Starting at 31gr up to 33.3 grains.

Thank you

lefty222:
Never thought to check the old Sierra manual I have around here.

It does have that smell.

Thank you
chuck40219
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2021, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phish4one View Post
RL7 gives me great groups in my 30-30ís and I highly recommend it.
I like Reloder 7 for 30-30 too. Are you finding it for sale anywhere.
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  #9  
Old 10-09-2021, 08:31 PM
chuck40219
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Got back to it.

Ended up with a charge of 27 gr. IMR4064. Shoots very well. My SIL will be happy with this setup.

Thanks to all that replied.

Chuck40219
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