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  #31  
Old 02-25-2020, 06:57 PM
bamajoey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beartrax View Post
As far as a good price.....I would consider any number less than $600 to be a decent buy..........depending somewhat on the small details. For example 16Turbos rifle has a Model 1 safety and likely a Model 1 bolt in it which would decrease the value just a little if I was the buyer.
You have aroused my curiosity. How can you tell if you have a #4 bolt or some other bolt?
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  #32  
Old 02-25-2020, 07:11 PM
beartrax
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Bolts

A Model 1 (or Model 3) bolt will have a relief cut at the rear of the firing pin where it surrounds the striker spring rest and sticks out the rear of the bolt. The Model 1/3 safety extends directly to the rear of the bolt when in the "off" position as opposed the the Model 2/5 safety which resides at 90 degrees to the bolt body when in the off safety position. You cannot always rely on the safety to tell you since a Model 2 safety will fit any of the 5 Brno Models and could have been retrofitted as a replacement sometime in the past.
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  #33  
Old 02-25-2020, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calfed View Post
Did the BRNO Aeron refurbs look like my rifle at all? Parkerized finish, stc?
The Aeron refurbished Model 4 Lux I have, is finished in blue and is just a mediocre job. I'm thinking a lot might have to do with the condition of the piece before the refinish. Yours, from looking from the pictures provided, seems to be a very nice example. I have been looking for a while for a really nice one and they are few and far between, you did good.

Off topic, does any one of you BRNO collector and or nuts have a nice condition front sight band for the 456 LUX?
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  #34  
Old 02-25-2020, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd1950 View Post
My M4 came to me from a Florida dealer who imports a lot of Club rifles, it came well used and possibly a tiny bit abused stock wise, it had a 10 oz. trigger when it arrived so I left that alone, I shot several 200-20x 50 yard bench rest B25/5's with it in our RFC online matches. That seemed to twist the tails on a few cats around here. I tried refinishing the stock but it still looked rough, an offer of a NOS stock from Brett here at RFC took care of that. If my eyes would let me I'm sure the old gal has a few more X's left in her.





Somewhere in the Czech Republic some old phart is likely still grouseing about the club selling off his favorite rifle.
Gerald, I see that your M4 is kinda a "blondie", as is mine.
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  #35  
Old 02-26-2020, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67rschev View Post
The Aeron refurbished Model 4 Lux I have, is finished in blue and is just a mediocre job. I'm thinking a lot might have to do with the condition of the piece before the refinish. Yours, from looking from the pictures provided, seems to be a very nice example. I have been looking for a while for a really nice one and they are few and far between, you did good.

Off topic, does any one of you BRNO collector and or nuts have a nice condition front sight band for the 456 LUX?
Thanks, '67

I've been looking for a nice example of a BRNO target rifle for a while myself. I was happy to see this one at that auction.
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  #36  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beartrax View Post
A Model 1 (or Model 3) bolt will have a relief cut at the rear of the firing pin where it surrounds the striker spring rest and sticks out the rear of the bolt. The Model 1/3 safety extends directly to the rear of the bolt when in the "off" position as opposed the the Model 2/5 safety which resides at 90 degrees to the bolt body when in the off safety position. You cannot always rely on the safety to tell you since a Model 2 safety will fit any of the 5 Brno Models and could have been retrofitted as a replacement sometime in the past.
Hi beartrax,

Here's my disassembled bolt. Can you tell what this setup consists of? I know from your prior input that it's a Model 1/3 safety, but wondering about the firing pin and bolt.

Thanks!

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  #37  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:40 AM
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Model 4 firing pin for comparison. The Model 4 firing pin does not fit the Model 3 bolt.


Last edited by Low Key; 02-26-2020 at 12:45 PM.
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  #38  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I6turbo View Post
Hi beartrax,

Here's my disassembled bolt. Can you tell what this setup consists of? I know from your prior input that it's a Model 1/3 safety, but wondering about the firing pin and bolt.

Thanks!

That appears to be a Model 1/3 bolt.



Left: Model 1/3 type bolt body- no cent hole
Center: original Brno made Model 2/4/5 type bolt body- small vent hole
Right: later Brno/CZ Model 2/5 type bolt body- large vent hole

With the appropriate internals and safety, I’d anticipate (though not guarantee) the Model 1/3 bolt you have to operate properly in your Model 4. They should all fit the action of the other models, though the large vent hole bolt bodies can have larger play than the earlier Brno bolt bodies due to slightly different tolerances at the CZ factories.
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  #39  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmrybak View Post
That appears to be a Model 1/3 bolt.



Left: Model 1/3 type bolt body- no cent hole
Center: original Brno made Model 2/4/5 type bolt body- small vent hole
Right: later Brno/CZ Model 2/5 type bolt body- large vent hole

With the appropriate internals and safety, I’d anticipate (though not guarantee) the Model 1/3 bolt you have to operate properly in your Model 4. They should all fit the action of the other models, though the large vent hole bolt bodies can have larger play than the earlier Brno bolt bodies due to slightly different tolerances at the CZ factories.
Bolt from my Model 3 Stecher top, Bolt from my Model 4 Lauf Kurz bottom.

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  #40  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by beartrax View Post
Yes, yours looks very representative of one of these rifles. Is yours marked "SAAVARM" in small letters on the side of the receiver or barrel?
Are you suggesting the SVAZARM mark was applied by Brno Aeron? I don’t believe this was the case, as SVAZARM is really a para military organization from the early days of Soviet influence. Founded in 1951, many Brno were destined for SVAZARM units from the factory. In fact, the SVAZARM stamps were approved to barrels and receivers separately before the two were brought together according to Denny, which is why some rifles have multiple SVAZARM unit numbers.

Here’s a photo of a SVAZARM event that I found after much digging into the group a while back. Appears to be period, and you can clearly see a Brno Model 1 or 5 that has been cited with Brno target sights.



My apologies if I simply misunderstood your comment.

Last edited by jmrybak; 02-26-2020 at 04:49 PM.
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  #41  
Old 02-26-2020, 03:35 PM
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SAAVARM Marking

Are you suggesting the SVAZARM mark was applied by Brno Aeron?

No, that was not my intent; however, I appreciate your asking if my post was misleading. I asked that question due to the fact that so many (if not all) of the BRNO Aeron refurbished rifles were surplus para-military arms and so marked. It looks as if they bought the entire lot when they were sold off. I say this as I have not seen any SVAZARM marked rifles that had not gone through the refurbishing process. Your mileage may vary................
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  #42  
Old 02-26-2020, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beartrax View Post
Are you suggesting the SVAZARM mark was applied by Brno Aeron?

No, that was not my intent; however, I appreciate your asking if my post was misleading. I asked that question due to the fact that so many (if not all) of the BRNO Aeron refurbished rifles were surplus para-military arms and so marked. It looks as if they bought the entire lot when they were sold off. I say this as I have not seen any SVAZARM marked rifles that had not gone through the refurbishing process. Your mileage may vary................
Gotcha, was just curious as there is so much mystery with these Brno and wanted to be clear what was being said. No worries!

I have all SVAZARM marked Brno 3 and 4 and none of them have been parkerized. One came directly from Denny and was described as original condition. I had to clean a lot of cosmoline out and it, and Denny mentioned that the deep dark red dull finish to the stock comes from it sitting in cosmoline itself for quite a while. Having gone through it up and down inside and out, I don’t see any sign of rebuking or refinishing. So in my mind I’d take this as the original finish for reference. Others opinions may differ, happy to hear them either way.

The finish on my Stecher, matches the above description perfectly. Whereas the Brno Model 4 Lauf Kurz I have has a highly polished bluing and wears a Klinsky refinished original Brno stock. I am the second owner of this one, and Denny sold it to the first. I had many conversations with Denny about it, and he described it as being from one of the early small contracts Brno filled for Scandinavian export and the finish was part of that order. It certainly doesn’t look like it’s been reblued, and I have handled a few Brno that were at some point in the past. However, other than my own inspection I only have Denny’s word, but I’m good with that too.
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  #43  
Old 02-26-2020, 06:02 PM
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This is my 4 in a Klinsky stock
Gilbert

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  #44  
Old 02-27-2020, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Gillis2 View Post
This is my 4 in a Klinsky stock
Gilbert

Very nice example sir!! Can you share the history of this particular Model 4? Do you know who imported it or when it may have come over?
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  #45  
Old 02-27-2020, 09:09 AM
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Thank you all for the detailed input on the bolts. I had a Model 1 and Model 3 in the past, but no longer have them here to compare, so I'm glad to understand just what I have in the Model 4.

I think I may find a Model 4 style safety lever for it, but otherwise leave it as is because the gun shoots very well with SK Pistol Match (the highest-end ammo I've tried). Somewhat surprisingly to me, it shoots Pistol Match much better than Standard Plus. Here's a typical target at 50 yards (shot from a rest and bags off of a car hood), Pistol Match on the top right and lower right, the other three are Standard Plus.

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