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  #61  
Old 07-29-2018, 12:48 PM
jaia
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I was going to test the Winchester X 22lr, but it won't fit the chamber on the Lilja.
EPS match chamber is too tight to allow the Winchester 22lr brass to seat.

So I ran another box of CCI SV from another lot.
Rated 1070 fps on the box, chronied 1092 hi, 1058 avg, 1019 low mv's.
Vertical spread on target is 10.5 inches, horizontal is 6 inches.
Wind E to SE at 5 to 10 mph

455 Varmint Lilja barrel, heavy bags





Ballistic calculator comes up with 8.8 inches of vertical and 4.9 inches of horizontal due to wind.

half-third results under the same conditions
10.5 inches at 200 yards
3.5 inches at 100 yards
1.2 inches at 50 yards
0.4 inches at 25 yards

Last edited by jaia; 07-29-2018 at 12:56 PM.
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  #62  
Old 07-29-2018, 03:44 PM
hankh
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jaia, Howdy;

Interesting project you've got goin. At the beginning you said you were placeing your
sighting mark about 10" higher then you anticipated your poi, yet in several including
the most recent I spy a poa (I calls'em paper a%%holes), right in the middle of the
vertical although off to the Left of the group whatzzz up??? other curious mind here.

hank
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  #63  
Old 07-29-2018, 04:06 PM
jaia
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Mr. H, I tried the dial up and the dial left and the dial right,
but the ammo and wind doesn't care which way I dial
they choose to go their own way no matter what I try.
I figure as long as all the shots stay on the backer
and the sight dot stays stuck, I'm doing ok.
Wait for my next trip. My sight point will be 41 inches above the backer.

Marlin 60 with a 3-9x32 scope zeroed at 50 yards.
41 inches is the holdover for a 1300 fps 40 gr 22lr.

Hank, ya think the folks that claim "all day long if they do their part" appreciate this thread?

I'm doing my part, but wind and ammo quality are kicking my adze.

Last edited by jaia; 07-29-2018 at 04:23 PM.
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  #64  
Old 07-29-2018, 04:59 PM
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I have been around the shooting games for long enough to know what you are doing is way legit and should put some tales to rest.
But it wont....oh well....we know.
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  #65  
Old 07-30-2018, 09:27 AM
jaia
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50 shots at 200 yards is about as good as it gets for rimfire testing.
Ammo quality is everything at 200 yards.
1 fps difference between shots, with standard velocity 22lr, produces 1/10th inch of vertical spread on target.
I hear claims of all day long at 200 yards and ask what brand of ammunition and size of target.
If they're shooting 14 inch steel plates I can believe them.
But if shooting at 4 inch or 2 inch plates, there is no all day long, not with rimfire.
As long as the laws of physics are enforced, then time of flight, wind and gravity prevent "all day long".
I can't even do 50 shots without a few lower quality cartridges or stray gusts ruining results.
Off the heavy bags sighting a 1/2 inch diameter dot, watching the crosshairs during follow through,
I know it's not me and I know it's not my Lilja barreled rifles. It's ammo quality and wind.

Last edited by jaia; 07-30-2018 at 10:28 AM.
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  #66  
Old 07-31-2018, 08:41 PM
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The hayfield has overgrown my 200 yard but maybe can get someone on a ladder if not I'll do it at 300 when my friend gets well & can shoot & we have a good day. I've held off adjusting the scope to 300 just for this by using Kentucky windage.
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  #67  
Old 07-31-2018, 08:48 PM
jaia
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No rush fly.
This thread will last a while.
I have 40 plus odd boxes of rimfire left over from learning about ammo quality.
Everything from Aguila to Sellier and Bellot.
Plus the stuff cuz hands off because it won't do what he expects.
If it won't feed through a Lilja then the Marlin or Browning will do the job.
Spent a few minutes this evening assembling an elevated aim point.
That way I don't have to mess with the scopes set for 25 to 50 yards.
No changing turret vertical, only focus.

Using the free ballistic calculator at gundata.org input the data for CCI SV as my slowest cartridge at 1000 fps



Then hit compare second bullet and entered a hypervelocity 22lr cartridge



Then selected advanced options, set scope zero at 50 yards



Then hit the calculate button



which generates the trajectory data for comparison



So at 200 yards the drop could be 36 inches to 62 inches using a 50 yard zero.
I need 3 aimpoints to keep the groupings centered on the backer for different mv's.
12 inches above top of target frame, 24 inches above and 36 inches ought to do the job.



1/2x2 lath from the scrap pile,
glued on crosspiece to maintain vertical stability atop frame,
plastic lids to aim at. Cheap, fast, effective.

Cartridge used and mv rating decides which point to sight
so the trajectory drop impacts center of target frame.
No need to change turret settings to shoot 200 yards.

The target frames at the local 200 yard range are 5 feet by 5 feet.
With the aimpoint mounted atop the frame, no problem keeping groups on center.


Last edited by jaia; 08-03-2018 at 08:36 AM.
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  #68  
Old 08-05-2018, 12:46 PM
jaia
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Winchester Super X 40 grain 22lr rated 1300 fps
Will not fit into the match chamber on the Lilja.


Can't use the Lilja, run them through the squirrel rifle.
The Marlin 60 will eat anything but a stovepipe.
The scope is a cheap 3x9x32 zeroed at 50 yards.
Set the new aim point fixture atop the target frame.
Big chunk of cardboard underneath.
Ballistic calculator spit out 41 inches of drop from a 50 yard zero.
So I aimed at the white reference sight point.



The Marlin was set in the test rest as it is too light to maintain a stable position on the bags.
Feels like cheating as it doesn't move when shooting, too easy.



Looking downrange, East wind at 8 to 12 from my 1 to 2 o'clock



10 rounds in the tube and downrange they went.
Didn't take 15 minutes to shoot all 50.
They all stayed on the backer at about 41 inches below the white aimpoint.


Not the best results, but not a surprise.



1364 mv high
1326 avg
1278 low

Last edited by jaia; 09-02-2018 at 08:42 PM.
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  #69  
Old 08-05-2018, 01:05 PM
jaia
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I'd just finished up with the Marlin 60 and was setting up the 455 Varmint Lilja
when one of the 50 yard benchrest competitors walked up. Test these for me.
Something isn't right. New order of Tenex and they are all over the target.
Partial box of Tenex and a brand new one labeled 1058 fps to test, lucky me.



Sent 20 to season the freshly cleaned Lilja, then sent 50 at the sight point.
Chrony kept track, not bad, but a higher mv than the Annie likes with it's tuner.
1111 fps hi, 1093 avg, 1081 low...only 30 fps ES
This batch of Tenex is shooting like cold weather biathlon ammo...mislabeled box maybe?




4.2 inches of horizontal, 4.4 inches of vertical
in an 8-12 mph headwind is pretty nice results.




This testing for others happens a lot,
as the benchrest competitors know I always have the chrony with me.
Usually it's just 5 or 10 rounds, not 2 boxes full. Right place right time.

Last edited by jaia; 08-05-2018 at 01:25 PM.
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  #70  
Old 08-05-2018, 01:09 PM
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So ran through a box of 50 Center-X today at 200. Shifting winds, head wind to left -> right 5 - 10 mph. Did not take a pic of setup and don't have a chrono. Shooting Vudoo-V22 off bipod with rear bag. Once I figured out the wind the group really settled in.

Target is a splatterburst 8", from the center, rings are 1", 2", 4", 6"



Rifle-pron for jaia

Scope has been changed, but this is basically it.

Last edited by Gouldphoto; 08-05-2018 at 03:27 PM. Reason: add pic
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  #71  
Old 08-05-2018, 01:19 PM
jaia
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Good looking group there, GP.
I'd bet the ES was less than 60 fps for that box of CenterX.
Add a picture of the Vudoo to the post, easy edit.
I like rifle-pron.


Thanks for adding the pic GP.
Chassis rig...very nice.

Last edited by jaia; 08-06-2018 at 10:09 AM.
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  #72  
Old 08-05-2018, 01:35 PM
jaia
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After discussing the Tenex results with the benchrest guys
went back to burning off the leftovers from my collection.
Next up is Sellier and Bellot 40 grain subsonic 22lr
It's rated 320 mps or 1050 fps, made in the Czech Republic.



Sent 10 at the steel to see how it'd react,
couple of clicks to offset the crosshairs,
and 50 at the remaining backer.

1113 hi, 1077 avg, 1040 low
practice or plinking ammo



Lots of vertical compared to the Tenex
same rifle, same conditions, just lower quality ammo.

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  #73  
Old 08-05-2018, 02:46 PM
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WOW on that Tenex
And the gun
AND the shooter
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  #74  
Old 08-07-2018, 08:05 AM
jaia
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I like this CZ 455 Varmint.
Factory single set trigger, pillared and bedded receiver, EPS chamber Lilja sporter barrel,
epoxy barrel support shim 3 inches forward of the receiver/tenon joint, DIP 25 moa rail
and the Mueller 8-32x44 target reticle scope.

As long as I keep it balanced just forward of the mag well on the heavy bag
the results are consistent. Shift the support forward and vertical spread becomes a problem.
Feed it decent ammunition, it'll produce some decent targets,
as long as the wind doesn't interfere.


I was asked how I obtain the vertical spread numbers at 200 yards.
There's two ways: 1) Calculate drop from time of flight and the gravity constant

or the easy way: 2) Ballistic Calculator


Use the option to compare 2 bullets
Same model of bullet, input different muzzle velocites high for first bullet and low for second bullet
Set scope zero at double the distance to the target (200 yards to target = 400 yards scope zero)



Calculate



At 200 yards in the results is the vertical difference in the 2 trajectories, about 3 inches
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  #75  
Old 08-12-2018, 01:32 PM
jaia
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Another morning, another box of 50 at 200 yards.
455 Varmint Lilja and heavy bags

Armscor 36 grain hollowpoints, rated 1260 fps



1235 hi mv
1201 avg
1165 low



Plinking and small game at close range
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