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  #31  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:09 PM
1917-1911M
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Watched a video on peracetic acid being used to clean the internal components of a SilencerCo SS Sparrow. It really got the parts clean....better than carbon remover did on mine. Why don't you just drop some common zinc in the vinegar and some common aluminum first before dipping your slide. I have an old broken P22 slide....I can stick part of it in some vinegar if you guys like. 1917
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  #32  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:29 PM
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https://patents.justia.com/inventor/daniel-rieger

You guys might find this patent application interesting. Daniel Rieger is the chief engineer for Walther small arms. There is some interesting information presented. Click on the blue link to go to the patent text. 1917
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  #33  
Old 04-24-2019, 08:14 PM
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There might be patents on the questions you are asking regarding the composition of the slides.

https://patents.justia.com/patent/6789342#history

Barrel fitted to the frame through a loop, tightened with a screw. Frame fixed to the grip....is this is the patent for the P22? I haven't read the whole thing. Interesting stuff floating around the net. And a whole lot of misinformation too. 1917
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  #34  
Old 04-24-2019, 09:03 PM
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Had a chance to test the slide tonight.

Based on the vinegar test, I would say the slide is made of aluminum.

I work with aluminum daily, and the look and feel of the bare slide material did appear to me to be aluminum before doing the test.

I frequently use vinegar to test for magnesium, which does react and turn black when a drop of vinegar is applied. If what I read was true, zinc should react similarly.

Next question - is it made in Ulm or Arnsberg?
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  #35  
Old 04-24-2019, 09:39 PM
jkv45
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Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
Watched a video on peracetic acid being used to clean the internal components of a SilencerCo SS Sparrow. It really got the parts clean....better than carbon remover did on mine. Why don't you just drop some common zinc in the vinegar and some common aluminum first before dipping your slide. I have an old broken P22 slide....I can stick part of it in some vinegar if you guys like. 1917
That would be great.

I would like to confirm that an obvious reaction does take place.

Thanks.
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  #36  
Old 04-26-2019, 10:56 AM
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Where is the above pistol made? OK I'l dip the slide.

Photo of the rear of a slide I cut in half after it broke. I've sanded off the side of the slide and cleaned it with carb cleaner. It hit the Heinz 5% Vinegar bath at 10:30 AM. I'll keep an eye on it. That slide is a 2007 model with 40K cycles and almost as many experiments carried out on it. It broke on the first shot Pilkguns tried. I'm sure he was impressed.



Section of the side of the slide fresh sanded with emery. Then washed. After 7 min in the vinegar, no noticeable change.



Glass half full of Vinegar.



What a section of the hardened pin at the slide catch looks like.



Photo of the underside of the slide. Walther calls this zinc die cast. I believe one member here says it isn't. I wouldn't know what the manufacturing method is or the zinc composition formula. But I would be interested in knowing the details. There are no marks on the slide that I can find indicating any difference from what I see on the aluminum Smith full size .22 made by Walther. Looking at the finish on my P22QD die cast zinc slide I cannot see any difference from the Smith aluminum slide. 1917

Last edited by 1917-1911M; 04-26-2019 at 11:08 AM.
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  #37  
Old 04-26-2019, 10:59 AM
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BTW, that blob of stuff on the side is some JB Weld that was applied to the cleaned side of the slide as a test of how well JB will hold....I think for a PPS thread at Walther Forum. It holds very well and actually requires a chisel/light hammer to remove. 1917
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  #38  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post


Where is the above pistol made? OK I'l dip the slide.



Photo of the underside of the slide. Walther calls this zinc die cast. I believe one member here says it isn't. I wouldn't know what the manufacturing method is or the zinc composition formula. But I would be interested in knowing the details. There are no marks on the slide that I can find indicating any difference from what I see on the aluminum Smith full size .22 made by Walther. Looking at the finish on my P22QD die cast zinc slide I cannot see any difference from the Smith aluminum slide. 1917
Interesting! What model is that (top photo)?

So it looks like Walther's statement of proofing at either location, depending on workload, is correct.

The marks on the underside of the P22 slide would suggest it is at least cast something. I have not found any casting marks on the underside of the PPQ slide.

So you would say there was no reaction from the cast P22 slide from vinegar?

Thanks.
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  #39  
Old 04-26-2019, 05:04 PM
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Very tiny bubbles are rising off the slide. The bare area has turned slightly darker. I'll post a photo tomorrow of what it looks like at 24 hours. 1917
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  #40  
Old 04-26-2019, 05:11 PM
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A slower reaction to the vinegar because of the many metals they melt and cast. Maybe refresh the the vinegar and let it sit. There are many alloys in pot metal, but it looks like if it's bubbling and getting darker, it's that zinc alloy.
Thank you so much for doing this.
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  #41  
Old 04-26-2019, 05:21 PM
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The pistol in the first photo is a 2017 QD P22, the one with the captive recoil spring and decocker. Other than that it is 100% P22. I have a suppressor on it. My 5" target pistol...the frame of which once resided inside the broken slide that is in the dip...has a Q model slide, drilled out to receive the new captive recoil spring.

I have no reason to believe the P22 slide isn't just what Walther says....die cast zinc of some mix. The Ft Smith AR roll stamp feels real....sharp edges and all. The Walther banner and serrations are all nicely rounded just a bit but look perfect. However they make the slide they have it down to a fine art....not that the zinc might be the best alternative. I've read quite a bit about it and attribute most of the problems to poor engineering design. Sharp corners and metal that simply was too thin. Aluminum is soft also and will wear where it contacts sharp steel or gritty lubricant. One advantage aluminum has is that it is lighter. I don't know the cost of the P22 slide but I expect the die cast method used for the frame halves and slide really save quite a bit in costs compared to machined aluminum. As skinny as the frame is I'd like to see it made of steel, the slide made of aluminum and a different mainspring and sear spring. It would be good if the hammer/mainspring could be designed where some mechanical advantage of cocking the hammer reduced the upward pressure of the hammer against the slide once the hammer is near or in the cocked position. Then a full 5" slide on the 5" version....no stabilizer. And properly shape those trigger bar ears. I've said that how many times in 15 years???? 1917
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  #42  
Old 04-26-2019, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ViperR View Post
A slower reaction to the vinegar because of the many metals they melt and cast. Maybe refresh the the vinegar and let it sit. There are many alloys in pot metal, but it looks like if it's bubbling and getting darker, it's that zinc alloy.
Thank you so much for doing this.
Yep, you guys owe me. If a nice Smith mod 41 showed up at my FFL that would go a good step at settling the debt. Or one of those long barrel PP .32 or .22 target pistols of yesteryear. That would work as well. Tomorrow I'm going to add some Hydrogen peroxide to the mix and see what that does. I will set it somewhere outside. You don'k know how close I came to taking a swig of the mix while it was sitting on my desk....had a cup of coffee and a glass of water. I moved it way away after it got within 2" of my mouth. Whew, that was close. Vinegar won't hurt you but swallowing a slide part might. 1917
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  #43  
Old 04-26-2019, 05:37 PM
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One thing I will say about the zinc slide....the metal is pretty hard. And the skinny, right side arm ( where the SN is) can be pressed in appx. 1/4" and not break. Much tougher than I expected. I figured it would simply snap off.....but no...it springs back to the original position although it takes a lot of pressure to bend it inward that much. Crete and I have both broken the side of the frame there and I'm now surprised it cracked.

The Smith compact I bought had terrible barrels....absolutely terrible....three of em...but the lighter aluminum slide sure cycled everything I ran through the pistol. Couldn't hit anything with it but it sure cycled slow stuff just as reliably as the fast stuff. Lighter aluminum slide on the P22 please Walther. Steel inner frame too. 1917
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  #44  
Old 04-27-2019, 03:19 PM
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@ 28 hours....I was busy. Sides, I'm getting old and forgot about it. Here you can see the rear of the slide sitting in a glass of 5% Heinz vinegar. I didn't refresh it. Looking closely you can see the bubbles. They sure smell strong.



I don't see any metal removal. The scratches look about the same. The metal has darkened slightly. An odd thing seems to be total removal of something at the bottom of the slide serrations as pictured. Then, the bubbles seemed to have streaked the upper portion of the slide that was not in the dip. The JB Weld seems to have blistered...I can't see much damage to the finish...will have to clean and lightly oil and wipe to see final finish there. The grooves have darkened a bit as well. Have no idea what the white stuff is. It is gritty. I'm not a chemist.

Just refreshed the vinegar with 5% White House and 50% of the mix is now hydrogen peroxide. Will see if that damages anything, particularly the finish. Now back to work....beautiful day here today and plenty to do. The masons are here laying another patio. They were super impressed with the suppressed P22. Later. 1917
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  #45  
Old 04-28-2019, 07:11 PM
jkv45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post


The pistol in the first photo is a 2017 QD P22, the one with the captive recoil spring and decocker. Other than that it is 100% P22. I have a suppressor on it. My 5" target pistol...the frame of which once resided inside the broken slide that is in the dip...has a Q model slide, drilled out to receive the new captive recoil spring.
Now I'm really confused - a P22 made in Ulm? Or maybe that's not the location of production, just the headquarters...

That goes against everything I've ever heard about the P22.

Last edited by jkv45; 04-28-2019 at 07:13 PM.
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