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  #16  
Old 04-05-2019, 12:03 PM
Fritz_109

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I'm from Germany in the cases where I ask Ulm they said they need more time. So I send it to Cologne or Munich. Ulm is often on the limit with HK, and there are other interests. And Ulm is complicated !

I think they will do it in the same way.
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  #17  
Old 04-05-2019, 12:24 PM
CZemplary

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This would substantiate what the Walther Tech said that when Ulm is running behind they go to Cologne 'Three Crowns' or Munich.

Thank you for your response as a German it is helpful in substantiating this information.
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  #18  
Old 04-05-2019, 04:38 PM
jkv45
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Well - I'm not convinced.

Walther doesn't even agree what material the slide is manufactured from. All the literature I've seen says the PPQ .22 slide is made from solid aluminum and not cast zinc as is the P22's slide.

Looking at this chart in the PPQ .22 listing- https://www.waltherarms.com/wp-conte...ison-chart.pdf - it states the slide is "Zinc Diecast".

I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure (hopeful) that is not correct.

Honestly, I'm leaning more towards Arnsberg than Ulm. The Ulm PPQs all have it stamped on the receiver.
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  #19  
Old 04-06-2019, 12:56 AM
Fritz_109

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What significance does it have for you whether it is stamped a Arnsberg or Ulm? It is not a collector's weapon and the quality will be the same on today's CNC machines.

For 450 €, what it costs in Europe you can not expect too much. If you want real steel, you have to buy CZ, but there the times are changing nowadays too.

Sorry for these words, but in this price range you don't get steel and not even from GSG

Last edited by Fritz_109; 04-06-2019 at 12:59 AM.
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  #20  
Old 04-06-2019, 12:07 PM
jkv45
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Originally Posted by Fritz_109 View Post
What significance does it have for you whether it is stamped a Arnsberg or Ulm? It is not a collector's weapon and the quality will be the same on today's CNC machines.

For 450 €, what it costs in Europe you can not expect too much. If you want real steel, you have to buy CZ, but there the times are changing nowadays too.

Sorry for these words, but in this price range you don't get steel and not even from GSG
If you read my earlier posts, you will see that I'm not all bent out of shape no matter what. I like the gun a lot, and think it may be the best .22 of its type - and I own a few.

The issue for me is it seems like where it's produced is a secret, and there's so much contradictory info floating around. Even Walther doesn't know the facts about the gun (look at the Walther info in my previous post).

EDIT: I looked at the underside of my slide, but could not determine if there were significant tool marks on not. Tool marks would suggest the slide was machined from a solid aluminum and not cast (from zinc). I may remove the coating on a small spot on the underside and test the material. Apparently, vinegar will react with zinc but not aluminum. I'm curious who is telling the truth about the slide material.

There was some different info on the Walther site at one time that stated the slide was aluminum, but it has since been removed.

Last edited by jkv45; 04-07-2019 at 04:24 PM.
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  #21  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:55 AM
jkv45
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I'm still on my quest for The Truth, and have found about a 50/50 split of comments/reviews online stating the material of the PPQ .22's slide is zinc/aluminum.

Found this interesting document - http://copsinc.com/file/Prohibited_F...n_Illinois.pdf

Apparently in IL, firearms are prohibited from having a slide made of zinc. The PPQ .22 is on the list right next to the P22.

"In accordance with ILCS 5/24-3, Section A, Subsection (h), C.O.P.S, Inc. may not
sell, or deliver to an unlicensed individual any handgun having a barrel, slide,
frame or receiver which is a die casting of zinc alloy or other non-homogeneous
metal that melts or deforms at a temperature of less than 800 degrees Fahrenheit."

Walther Walther P22, PPK/S 22, PPQ .22
Uzi .22 pistol
Heckler and Koch 416 .22 pistol
Colt/Umarex 1911 .22
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  #22  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:36 PM
1917-1911M
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Congrats on finding that page of specs. I thought it was long gone as I could not find it. If the grip wasn't so large I'd get one of the 5" models. Over the years I've read a lot of misstatements from Walther. Let's see, PPQ 22, best striker fired pistol Walther has ever made...nopper, is has a hammer. Tighten the barrel nut on finger tight only.....what!!!! That is absolutely wrong. And then you will find that sometimes a 9mm manual from some pistol is used for a .22 So, there is kind of a history of careless wording in these things.

Over the years I've carefully measured a number of pistols, weight, dimensions, trigger pull, pull required to move the slide, etc. And while I don't remember what a P22 slide weighs at present I did ask someone to weight the considerably longer slide on the PPQ .22 5"er and it was the same as the P22. While I guess that is technically possible I would have thought the 5"slide would have weighed considerably more than the shorter P22 slide. I did weigh the similar size slide of an aluminum Smith M&P .22 compact and that slide was 29% lighter than the P22 slide. If the PPQ slide was the same material as the P22 I would have expected it to weigh more. If aluminum I was expecting it to weight less...but, it is longer, I don't know about thickness and yet it still weighs the same as the P22 slide. Both have a pinned in breech block as I recall.

Another place to perhaps get an idea is the full size Smith M&P .22 which is very similar to the PPQ 22 because Walther makes both. What does Smith say their silde is made of? How much does it weigh? I shot one one time, took it all apart to look at it...removed the breech block, etc. but didn't weigh the slide. That was a tricky assembly to take apart as I recall.....but if those Germans can figure it out...i figure I can too. 1917
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  #23  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:52 PM
1917-1911M
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https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearm...hreaded-barrel

Specs here say aluminum alloy and the fact that the pistol is made by Walther is clearly stated. I expect the PPQ 22 has the same slide material. If someone has one of these pistol perhaps they could remove the slide and weight it for us. The two should be very similar in weight if of the same material. 1917
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  #24  
Old 04-13-2019, 09:23 PM
jkv45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearm...hreaded-barrel

Specs here say aluminum alloy and the fact that the pistol is made by Walther is clearly stated. I expect the PPQ 22 has the same slide material. If someone has one of these pistol perhaps they could remove the slide and weight it for us. The two should be very similar in weight if of the same material. 1917
Thanks 1917!

There's another interesting item in the photo of the M&P22 (in the link above) - the gun is clearly marked "Carl Walther Ulm / DO" on the right side of the receiver, but there are no proof marks.

Seeing how related the M&P22 and PPQ .22 appear to be, it would be strange to produce the M&P22 at the Ulm plant and the PPQ .22 at the Arnsberg plant.

Just more contradictory info to confuse me...

EDIT: With a Google search of "Walther M&P22 proof marks" some images of the M&P22 come up with proof marks of the "Three Crowns" from the Cologne facility. But according to Walther, the proof location doesn't mean anything.

Last edited by jkv45; 04-13-2019 at 09:40 PM.
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  #25  
Old 04-24-2019, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
Those are good pistols from all the reviews I read. I'd really like the 5"er but the grip is the same size as the PPQs and is just a tiny bit too large for my girly hands.
Should be an excellent trainer for the similar sized PPQ in 9mm or 45. 1917
I was surprised upon investigation Walther didn't have the 3 different grips for the PPQ M 22 like my PPQ Q5 Match 9mm has.
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  #26  
Old 04-24-2019, 01:48 PM
ViperR

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I agree about them not offering the interchangeable back straps like on their center fire models, being both the CF and rimfire are the same size. Maybe something to do about the CF being striker fired and the .22 with an internal hammer. Maybe just a design/mold difference between the two and accommodating the different firing mechanisms. Costs?

Also, I remember reading something back when where the the shorter 4" had the crappy zinc alloy slide, while the longer 5" model had an aluminum slide with the steel inserted breech. Something to do with the 5" model having the vents in the slide forward past the trigger guard area and made out of aluminum compared to the solid 4" zinc one. You could see the barrel past the vents. Easy to machine out of aluminum, than a zinc casting. But, the vents are not there anymore in Walther's updated catalog. Hmm... Seen one in 5" at my LGS a while back that had the vents.

I'm still balancing myself on the fence about this .22. As long as the internal trigger housing in the polymer frame is steel (including slide rails), the slide is aluminum with a steel breech insert, I'm good. Just like the Ruger SR22 is. But, the SR is tiny and we could never get a good hold on this smaller version to keep the firing consistent. A full sized in .22 is worth a look.

I'll have to find that article !!!

Last edited by ViperR; 04-24-2019 at 01:59 PM.
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  #27  
Old 04-24-2019, 02:01 PM
jkv45
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Originally Posted by ViperR View Post
I agree about them not offering the interchangeable back straps like on their center fire models, being both the CF and rimfire are the same size. Maybe something to do about the CF being striker fired and the .22 with an internal hammer. Maybe just a design/mold difference between the two and accommodating the different firing mechanisms. Costs?

Also, I remember reading something back when where the the shorter 4" had the crappy zinc alloy slide, while the longer 5+" model had an aluminum slide with the steel inserted breech. Something to do with the 5" model having the vents in the slide forward past the trigger guard area. Easy to machine out of aluminum, than a zinc casting. And the weight had to be the same for proper cycling. A zinc in a bigger slide is much heavier.

I'm still balancing myself on the fence about this .22. As long as the internal trigger housing in the polymer frame is steel (including slide rails), the slide is aluminum with a steel breech insert, I'm good. Just like the Ruger SR22 is. But, the SR is tiny and we could never get a good hold on this smaller version to keep the firing consistent. A full sized in .22 is worth a look.
I haven't heard that before. The P22 uses a zinc slide, and sometimes the PPQ and the P22 get mixed up.

My PPQ 4" model has a steel insert in the slide for the firing mechanisms and in the slide lock area.

I plan to test the material of the slide to determine if it's aluminum or zinc, but as of now I've seen nothing conclusive.

The gun feels and works great, but would like to know the answer to a few questions myself.
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  #28  
Old 04-24-2019, 02:12 PM
ViperR

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https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/...alther-ppq-22/

I believe this is the article. I would never buy anything made with zinc/Zamak again. Been through a couple of P22's in the past. I know the difference. No model confusion.

Let us know your findings jkv45. An acid/metal test? And thank you for the input !!

Do you have the 4" or 5" model in your PPQ?

Last edited by ViperR; 04-24-2019 at 02:19 PM.
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  #29  
Old 04-24-2019, 04:36 PM
jkv45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperR View Post
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/...alther-ppq-22/

I believe this is the article. I would never buy anything made with zinc/Zamak again. Been through a couple of P22's in the past. I know the difference. No model confusion.

Let us know your findings jkv45. An acid/metal test? And thank you for the input !!

Do you have the 4" or 5" model in your PPQ?
I have seen that article, and it states - "These are built by Walther, not Umarex." and "This is not a cheap zinc alloy slide either, but hard-anodized aluminum.".

Both statements can be argued. Even Walther lists the slide as "Zinc Diecast" in one of it's published charts. The plant where the PPQ .22 is produced is also a secret. Other PPQs clearly say "Ulm/DO" on the receiver, the .22 does not.

I've seen posts on forums saying "The PPQ .22 is junk!" where it goes on to discuss the P22 and a zinc slide, that's why I mentioned the confusion.

Apparently vinegar will react with zinc and not with aluminum, so I was planning to remove the coating on the underside of the slide and test the material.

I have the standard model -

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  #30  
Old 04-24-2019, 05:57 PM
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Photo of the underside of the Smith full size slide, breech block and extractor. Someone dropped one of these off and of course I had to take it apart to see how it worked. This one is made my Walther. 1917
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