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  #1  
Old 02-22-2021, 08:02 AM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Tuned at 50yds. vs. Tuned at 100yds.



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IMO opinion if you rifle is truly tuned at 50yds. ammo is the only thing that will make a difference when shooting at 100yds. and it will be in tune at 100yds.

Being that ammo is tested at the centers at least at Lapua for both 50m and 100m
at the same time. so with their vast experience, why don't they test at 100m separately?
would they suggest a 50m barrel and 100m barrel?
they know ammo performance will dictate how it will shoot in the same barrel at both 50m and 100m
for those who believe tuned at 50 won't be at 100. wouldn't it ring true for a naked barrel using no tuner? the barrel simply can't shoot both distances right?

So we come back to my question. in tune at 50 is it tuned at 100, if you believe otherwise please post actual targets to show the difference.

This not a challenge but I would like to know and learn what to look for when shooting at 100yds. using the same tune for 50yds. the results I am getting is telling me it has to be in tune.

Lee
p.s please no projected graphs but actual targets, I don't want calculated theories
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:52 AM
vlnbyr

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Lee...The major problem with the Test Centers is they are bringing a bunch of factors into play. One is tuning if you test naked or with tuner on. Another is bedding if you clamp the stock in lock down or go with the barreled action in a fixture and locked down. You have to be very focused on what you are actually trying to accomplish there. Every 50yd lot I have seen that turned out to shoot great and put up big targets was also very good at 100yds.
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
Being that ammo is tested at the centers at least at Lapua for both 50m and 100m
at the same time. so with their vast experience, why don't they test at 100m separately?

Lee
Lee,

I'd say it's simply down to time and money. If one isn't attempting to find optimum tuner settings, just the best batch/batches, recording data from both distances at once is quicker and uses less ammo. With electronic (accoustic/optical) targets, the 50yd sensors should not affect bullet flight.
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Old 02-22-2021, 05:20 PM
Turbosam
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Lee i agree, once the gun is tune its tuned no matter the distance. Then you run into ammo that shoots lights out @50 may not be so good @100. Like John mentioned though his tested ammo also shot good @100. So what happens to the killer lots @50 when they shoot like crap @100? Is it a tune issue or ammo issue? Chicken or the egg. Sam
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Old 02-22-2021, 06:54 PM
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I would have to see the Test Center printouts of those lots that were killer at 50 but crap at 100 and if those lots later proved to be killer when shot in matches. My experience is with a number of lots and a number of testers not just me. My lot didn't test well at 50 or 100 but I had faith in it because it beat a lot that has shot very well for me and others in ARA matches. I bought it anyway because I figured the gun just didn't test as well as it shot matches. Range testing after I got the lot has shown my instincts to be correct, it is shooting very very well.
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  #6  
Old 02-22-2021, 08:37 PM
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Lee, can't happen, been here for years. marty
https://www.varmintal.com/a22lr.htm
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:42 PM
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A tuned barrel is a tuned barrel. You are tuning barrel harmonics for the the least amount of vertical stringing , not overall group size as most people tend to believe .Think about it! Barrel harmonics don't change with the distance to the target.

Last edited by bmisencik; 02-22-2021 at 08:50 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2021, 08:45 PM
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Varmint Al
07-14-2009, 09:01 PM
http://www.varmintal.com/22lr-velocity-variation.png
Here is a chart that shows the trajectory of 22LR 40 gr bullets with a BC of 0.128 and an average velocity of 1050 fps from 0 to 100 yards. It is assumed that the actual velocity varies from 1040 to 1060 fps. The first case is where the vertical is tuned out at 50 yards. In this case the vertical at 100 yards is 7.79-7.46 or 0.33”. The rifle is not in tune for 100 yards.

In the second case the vertical is tuned out at 100 yards. But in this case the vertical at 50 yards is 3.89-3.73 or 0.16”.

Anyone can calculate this for their rifle with its ammo just using free ballistic software. For small variations in muzzle velocity a 22LR rifle in tune at 50 yards is NOT in tune at 100 yards.

Last edited by earnest; 02-22-2021 at 08:52 PM.
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  #9  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:15 PM
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hmm, knew back then with the barrel profiles used in 2009 that 7.0oz was too much, up in the air about 4.5 or 6.0 oz. a few interesting names. marty
http://benchrest.com/archive/index.php/t-63010.html
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  #10  
Old 02-23-2021, 03:34 AM
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Lee, you know from our correspondence that I feel I've benefited from adjusting the tuner at 100. Thats not to say I think thats the case in general or for every rifle. Just what I'd seen.
I'll go thru some of my targets & see if I can show what I've seen. Otherwise will shoot both distances asap & post back here.
Do you have some pics of targets showing us where you believe your rifles are in tune with both?
I've seen your impressive results from the test center many times but like you would prefer to see real world targets.
Don't want to sidetrack this thread but when testing at the centers do they provide you with the targets shot or just the projections/graph from the sensors/system? If the latter is the case I'm not interested in using them.

Keith
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Old 02-23-2021, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earnest View Post
Varmint Al
07-14-2009, 09:01 PM
http://www.varmintal.com/22lr-velocity-variation.png
Here is a chart that shows the trajectory of 22LR 40 gr bullets with a BC of 0.128 and an average velocity of 1050 fps from 0 to 100 yards. It is assumed that the actual velocity varies from 1040 to 1060 fps. The first case is where the vertical is tuned out at 50 yards. In this case the vertical at 100 yards is 7.79-7.46 or 0.33”. The rifle is not in tune for 100 yards.

In the second case the vertical is tuned out at 100 yards. But in this case the vertical at 50 yards is 3.89-3.73 or 0.16”.

Anyone can calculate this for their rifle with its ammo just using free ballistic software. For small variations in muzzle velocity a 22LR rifle in tune at 50 yards is NOT in tune at 100 yards.
There is zero proof of this Marty. You can preach varmint AL till the cows come home, doesn't make him or you right. Marty if your guns are so well tuned let me shoot it in the indoor nats in March. I should be able to beat everyone there since there guns aren't really tuned right? Lol ball is in your court Marty, time to put up or shut up. Tune is tuned Marty no matter the distance the gun has no idea what distance its being shot at. So why would it not be in [email protected]? Don't say cause varmint AL says so. I want to see your proof on scoreable targets, not just you spouting out Al's work.
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Old 02-23-2021, 07:02 AM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linekin View Post
Lee, you know from our correspondence that I feel I've benefited from adjusting the tuner at 100. Thats not to say I think thats the case in general or for every rifle. Just what I'd seen.
I'll go thru some of my targets & see if I can show what I've seen. Otherwise will shoot both distances asap & post back here.
Do you have some pics of targets showing us where you believe your rifles are in tune with both?
I've seen your impressive results from the test center many times but like you would prefer to see real world targets.
Don't want to sidetrack this thread but when testing at the centers do they provide you with the targets shot or just the projections/graph from the sensors/system? If the latter is the case I'm not interested in using them.

Keith
Keith, I am trying to see what it is I need to look for if my rifles are not tuned to shoot at 100. you did mention making an adjustment, but I also believe you said also you don't know why you made only the adjustment you said you did.

Here are some examples of rifles that shoot at both 50 and 100. these are not recent targets. but should show what I am saying.

1411 tuner hasn't been adjusted in 4-years at minimum. back to back 5-shot group 100yds.
same rifle 10-shot group 100yds. <a href="https://imgur.com/vmkpRUg"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/vmkpRUg.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
10-shot 50yds.
this last target was a sight in target at 100yds. as you can see the last 5-shots were to confirm I made the correct scope adjustments prior to shooting for score.
that 7164 CX lot produced a 10-shot 100m at Lapua of 18.54mm and in every rifle I shot it in it produce great results at 100.
some actual match targets at 50yds. 250-17X 250-19X
I have no doubt it is tuned at 50, but with a few shooters saying it can't be at 100 I am trying find out how do I find out?

Factory 1413 Anschutz -
10-shot group 50yds. 5-shot group 100yds. this really shows what I been saying about ammo being the factor the vertical dispersion is very evident
3-shot group shot each shot during 3 different relays in a 21-minute time period. so if this rifle wasn't in tune I shouldn't have been able to have the correct hold to place shots where they went right?
a rifle in tune will not only shoot small groups but also be able to place shots precisely as well.

So what do I need to look for at 100?

Lee

Last edited by Hi-NV Shooter; 02-23-2021 at 07:27 AM. Reason: add pictures
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2021, 08:34 PM
linekin
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Lee, in your case I wouldn't be looking for anything. There's not a target shown in where I'd touch the tuner. Targets look great!
I wasn't getting those results. In fact, I didn't measure anything but am guessing I've had as much as an inch of vertical when starting out with a couple different rifles.
So, maybe I haven't got my rifles in their best tune at 50? I'll go back & shoot 50 yards & see if I feel it has a better tune.
Nice targets Lee.

Keith

Last edited by linekin; 02-23-2021 at 08:43 PM.
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2021, 09:35 PM
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if your truly in tune at 50 yards, that being launching a slower round at a higher arc than a faster round, then, slight adjustment of the tuner inwards, or removing a few grams of weight will put you in tune at 100 yards when using the same lot of ammo. marty
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Old 02-23-2021, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by earnest View Post
if your truly in tune at 50 yards, that being launching a slower round at a higher arc than a faster round, then, slight adjustment of the tuner inwards, or removing a few grams of weight will put you in tune at 100 yards when using the same lot of ammo. marty
Thank you Earnest. Sometimes what you say goes right over my head but this is a gem. It is so valuable for a beginner who is self taught and shoots alone. Makes sense and I understand why!

Thanks man, keep healthy
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