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  #1  
Old 08-02-2005, 07:45 PM
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best ammo for 200 yards?



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I live in north east MO about 50 miles from PASA park in Barry,IL they are having a 200 yard 22LR match about mid october. I want to shoot this match but dont know which way to go on ammo. My ultimate shoots velocitors very well do you guys think they will still be supersonic at 200yds or should i just go subsonic to start with? my gun wont shoot 60gr SSS at all, thought about lapua 48gr scoremax or wolf ME. any opinions or thoughts will be gladly accepted. keep
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2005, 09:28 PM
sixgunluvr

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Ammo choice

I live in north east MO about 50 miles from PASA park in Barry,IL they are having a 200 yard 22LR match about mid october. I want to shoot this match but dont know which way to go on ammo. My ultimate shoots velocitors very well do you guys think they will still be supersonic at 200yds or should i just go subsonic to start with? my gun wont shoot 60gr SSS at all, thought about lapua 48gr scoremax or wolf ME. any opinions or thoughts will be gladly accepted.


I'd use whatever shoots the best, have you tried the Wolf? A 200yd match sounds like a lot of fun and alot of luck involved to win.
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  #3  
Old 08-02-2005, 09:36 PM
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there is a place in my area with a 200yd range. i thought about maybe trying to shoot my rifle at that range, i think itd be fun. ive shot quite a few sub-inch groups at 100yds.

but anyways, for 200 yds you dont necessarily need hypervelocity ammo. you are not trying to kill anything. you just need enough energy to make it to the target and get through it. id say shoot whatever shoots the best at normal ranges. the HV ammo wll shoot flatter, but not necessarily more accurate.
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  #4  
Old 08-03-2005, 02:24 AM
Crete

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Ammo: SK Pistol Match, SK Standard Plus and LAPUA ScoreMax.

Special accessory, ScopeLevel: http://www.straightshooters.com/acce...velflipup.html
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  #5  
Old 08-03-2005, 03:19 AM
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The most accurate long range round in my rifle is Eley pistol match. This is followed closely by some Federal Gold Match I picked up four or five years ago. I am almost out and only use it to test equipment or try my brothers patience. As to adding a level to your bench gun, I prefer the one that screws into the side of my BKL rings.
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  #6  
Old 08-03-2005, 09:15 AM
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I wonder how the 200 yd shooters do on a USBR target at 25 or 50 yards??
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  #7  
Old 08-03-2005, 10:12 AM
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Before writing this, I verified my scopes and rifles. Here is how I zero:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKnarr
Something I failed to mention. For me to be zeroed at 50 yards and then zeroed at 200 meters, I must put on 61 inches of elevation. Most scopes with internal adjustments don't have enough elevation adjustment. I have .045 of an inch shims in the rear scope ring. That allows me to be centered at 50 yards when the elevation knob is close to the bottom but the scope still has enough elevation adjustment to add the 30 plus minutes.
Don't ask me why, but over the years (I shoot rimfires since 1975), I zero all my rifle scopes; Tasco Custom Shop 8-40x56 30mm tube, Leupold 3-9x33 EFR-1" tube, Shepherd 3-10x40 1"-tube, Malov 2.5x (a 7/8"-tube Zeiss clone), Weaver J2.5x 3/4"-tube, Browning 4x 3/4"-tube, Redfield 4x Sportster 3/4"-tube, Anshutz/Savage 4x15 3/4"-tube and a Diana 3x 3/4" tube, @ 16 yards (15 meters).

These have been zeroed-in long ago and they all shoot (usually w/subsonic ammo like SK, LAPUA and ELEY), dead center @ 50 yards! Then @ 100 yards I hold over a bit and finally @ 150 yards, a bit more. Only with the Shepherd I use the 150-yard range finding circle. With the rest I use the cross hair, or post and cross hair aiming below the cross hair intersection, depending on distance beyond 50 yards.

Even at 27 yards (25 meters), all my rimfires with the above scopes hit dead-on.

Of course these are calm day figures. With a bit of wind or a breeze, some allowance is in order, but not much if you know (or remember) your rifle/scope combo's habits.

Yet, a spirit scope level is the most handy addition for the 50yard+, shots.
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  #8  
Old 08-03-2005, 11:57 AM
Old Iron Sights

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People say alot of good things about the velocitor cartridge.Maybe you should just give it a chance!
Good Luck,
OIS
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  #9  
Old 08-03-2005, 01:50 PM
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Consistancy has got to be one of the most important features of the ammo you use.. At 200 yards the smallest changes in accuracy are magnified A LOT.

I've got to get another set of 20" inserts for my Burris Signature rings for my 10/22 so I can try this... My 20x Monarch only has a TOTAL of 38" of adjustment at 100 yards..
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  #10  
Old 08-03-2005, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKnarr
I don't shoot below 50 yards but if I zero at 50 yards these are the changes I must make from 50 yards to the different ranges.

65 Meters 18 clicks 1.6"
77 meters 35 clicks 3.7"
100 meters 57 clicks 7.9"
150 meters 136 clicks 27.9 inches
200 meters 218 clicks 59.5"

This is with a 21 inch barrel and Eley Match semiauto and a Weaver T-24 with 1/8 minute clicks that is 1 5/8" above the bore centerline. For Wolf MT, the last number is 61.9 inches.

According to a ballistic table I have, a 40 gr 22LR at 1295 fps that is sighted in at 100 yards will be zeroed at 15 yards, 1.41 inches high at 25 yards, 2.75 inches high at 50 yards, zeroed at 100 yards, 11.06 inches low at 150 yards, 31.6 inches low at 200 yards and more than 40 inches at 200 meters. Match ammo at 1050-1080 will be a lot worse.
Why, then, when I zero @ 16 yards (rather than 100 yards), I get so much lee way?

I hardly ever run out of adjustments. EVER!

Could it be that all my scopes are mounted so low, that their objective (front) lens sit just a hair above the bbl?

I can just about pass a thick cardboard between the scope and the rifle's barrel...
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  #11  
Old 08-03-2005, 07:57 PM
Bucks Owin

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Iron Sights
People say alot of good things about the velocitor cartridge.Maybe you should just give it a chance!
Good Luck,
OIS
Yeah, they shoot pretty flat all right but, in my rifle at least, they run out of "varmint accuracy" at around 125....

FWIW,

Dennis
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2005, 09:43 PM
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Using figures of 1425 fps muzzle velocity, 40 grain bullet, and ballistic coefficient of .105 (what the Velocitor usually tests at), the JBM Ballistic Calculator show speed drops below supersonic just past 75 yards. 100 yard velocity shows 1,041 fps, 200 yards shows 873 fps. Trajectory from a 50 yard zero, 75 yards -1.4'', 100 yards -4.6'', 125 yards -9.8'', 150 yards -17.2'', 175 yards -27'', 200 yards -39.5''. So 200 yard drop is almost 3-1/2 feet. All .22 long rifle ammo drops like a thrown rock past a hundred yards. It's very difficult to predict how an ammo will group at very long ranges, but I can tell you for sure, if you're not getting sub half inch groups at 50 yards with it, 100 yard groups will be bad. .22 long rifle usually will shoot at least 2 times larger at 100 yards than at 50, sometimes much worse. Ya'll should try the JBM Ballistic Calculator, it's a free online tool, you just fill in the blanks and hit "calculate", and it'll spit out a chart of bullet drop from line of bore, trajectory from line of sight, remaining velocity and energy, wind drift, and it'll correct for different atmospheric conditions such as temperature, altitude and humidity. http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculati...culations.html
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  #13  
Old 08-04-2005, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKnarr
...If you aren't interested in winning, or at least doing well, then by all means, buy the cheapest ammo you can get and fire away.
It is only SK Pistol Match, SK Standard Plus, LAPUA ScoreMax and ELEY Tenex Ultimate EPS, for yours truly.

It is the eternal struggle of Man against the machine (a machine Man made).

With all due respect, some ballistic programs are laughable and you cannot rely on them in place of real-life experiences, especially in .22 rimfire.

I always state my own experience AND subsonic (Match quality ammo) at that.

Be as it may, I'd rather prefer to hear someone's views (one who shoots and tells, subjectively, what he/she experienced), than the objective calculations of a PC ballistic program. Talk to Bill Gates about PCs.
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  #14  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:14 PM
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Some programs may not work well, but the JBM calculator is very reliable. I have backed up exactly what it gives out with real world target shooting. CCI Minimags set up 3/4'' high at 50 yards, that's a 36 grain hollowpoint at 1,250 fps muzzle velocity, land exactly 5'' low at 100 yards. The CCI Velocitor, same zero setup, 3/4'' high at 50 yards, will land right at 4'' low at 100 yards. SK Match, CCI Standard Velocity, Wolf Match, and nearly all subsonic target ammunition that fires at approximately 1,060 fps will land between 7'' and 8'' low at 100 yards. The .17 Hornady Mach 2 with the 17 grain bullet at 2100 fps and a ballistic coefficient of .125, with that same zero again, my favorite one, 3/4'' high at 50 yards, hits zero at 100 yards, and exactly 2'' low at about 135 yards. I know all these are correct and agree with the ballistic projections from computers, simply because I shot the real targets with a real rifle and real live measured distances.

It is impossible to hit with a .22 long rifle holding over " a couple of inches" at 100 yards, and a "bit more" at 200 yards, unless your bits over in Europe are more like meters.

Subsonic target ammunition zeroed at 25 yards will land over an inch low at 50 yards, and the same ammo zeroed at 50 yards will land over 1/2'' high at 25 yards. I have shot targets for many years myself, and NEVER been able to hit dead center at 25 and 50 yards with that velocity of ammunitions. It takes approximately 1, 250 fps or close to have a bullet impact line of sight at 25 yards and then again at 50 yards, unless you are shooting a centerfire with bullets having ballistic coefficients of over .4. The laws of science cannot be skirted, wind drag and gravity work the same on every continent on earth. A bullet of a certain ballistic coefficient launched at a certain velocity will follow a certain trajectory, as long as it's in our atmosphere and not in a total vacuum. It's been proven repeatedly for over a century.
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  #15  
Old 08-05-2005, 01:24 AM
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Observations ?

I'm just an observer and never seriously shot at a distance of over 100 yds. as my range is 130 yds. max ! Thus, I've read this thread with interest ...

From the conversation posted here, I'd be inclined to beleive that a correct rifle/ammunition combination better be capiable of printing a one hole groop @ 50 yds., a m.o.a. groop @ 100 yds. ? Then the shooter stands a chance of a respectable (?) groop @ 200 yds ?

I'm further guessing the ammunition used would have to be sub-sonic ? But, w/o wind flags, how does the shooter judge the effects wind deflection ? The effect of wind deflection can begin to be a problem at a distance of 50 yds. ...?

MKnarr said that the only wind indicator is a piece of surveyors tape @ the target and no others allowed ? Now, that presents a problem as most of us are not a Carlos Hathcock !

Shooting a .22 @ 100 yds. is more difficult to do well that shooting hi-power @ 1000 yds. ... What's the difficulty equate to shooting the .22 @ 200 yds. ...?

I'm further guessing that to shoot @ 200 yds. you'd have to pick your day ?
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