My new to me Model 1121 - Page 2 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 11-09-2019, 09:20 AM
Tom_in_MO's Avatar
Tom_in_MO
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Apr 2016
Location: 
St. Louis, MO
Posts: 
1,720
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)


Log in to see fewer ads
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clem-E View Post
I have been able to get quite a few groups in the .4s out of my T barrel pictured above at 50y. occasionally itll shoot above 1/2", and i think my best has been high .3s. but i have probably only put a brick of ammo out of it so far.
Thanks for the input Clem.

I have re-thought the prediction thing a bit. I now think that the CTC measurements are the ones to be used for extrapolation of results at longer distances. For example:

..........................CTC
25 yards...... 0.14 - 0.16.....already done
50 yards...... 0.28 - 0.32
100 yards.... 0.56 - 0.64.....this would make sense, given the numbers for my SB and this being the accurater gun
200 yards.... 1.12 - 1.28

Of course, at an outdoor range the farther out you go, the more opportunity there is that atmospherics can play a part. The projections above are for ideal conditions, but should not be too far off for outdoors, on a windless day with temps in the 60s - 80s.

Last edited by Tom_in_MO; 11-11-2019 at 09:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-09-2019, 05:14 PM
Tom_in_MO's Avatar
Tom_in_MO
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Apr 2016
Location: 
St. Louis, MO
Posts: 
1,720
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Decided to work on the metal TG the gun came with.

Tore it completely down, polished everywhere that metal touched metal--including the return plunger (but not the hole itself); back of the trigger where the plunger touches it; and the mag release plunger and plunger hole. All polishing ended with 1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Put a drop of Rem Oil on the hammer where it contacts the sear, and also a drop in the mag release hole. I also swapped out the return spring for a lighter Wolff one, left over from when I Brimstoned my trigger. Oh, and I did the auto bolt release mod (30 seconds with a router bit on my Dremel).

Trigger pull was 5.5# when I got the gun. It is now just north of 3#, nice and crisp. It's just gonna sit on a shelf until I decide what to do with it.

Also gonna start work on my BX Brimstone Tier 2, to make it a Tier 1, and try to bring the pull weight down.

Last edited by Tom_in_MO; 11-09-2019 at 05:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-09-2019, 09:19 PM
rascally

Join Date: 
Apr 2015
Posts: 
15
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I think Brimstone states that they originally had the BX trigger honed finer, but it wasn't as reliable as they wanted, and so they backed off a little. Perhaps you can improve on their work, don't know if you don't try, eh? Trying leads to improvements...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-09-2019, 09:28 PM
Tom_in_MO's Avatar
Tom_in_MO
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Apr 2016
Location: 
St. Louis, MO
Posts: 
1,720
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Well, poop. Tapped the hole in the top of the Brimstone BX trigger for a sear set screw, but the aluminum is so thin there that there are not actually any threads. Not sure how Brimstone does it. Maybe they add some material like JB Weld or epoxy or something. Not gonna worry about it.

Just ordered some music wire from Amazon, four 12" long pieces with a 0.0200" diameter. The Brimstone torsion spring is 0.0265" diameter. (BTW the bolt release spring is 0.0305" diameter.) I will try to make a lighter torsion spring out of this stuff. Cost under $6.

I may be fruitlessly trying to re-invent the wheel here. Brimstone has probably got this all figured out by now, and knows the 0.0200" is too thin. It might work with a reduced power sear spring, which I will order from Wolff Gunsprings.

Or maybe Brimstone went overly heavy just for reliable reset, and I can get away with a lighter gauge wire.

My emergency backup plan is the bobby pin trick. I posted some helpful pics on page 11 of this thread.

Last edited by Tom_in_MO; 11-10-2019 at 11:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-10-2019, 11:11 AM
Tom_in_MO's Avatar
Tom_in_MO
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Apr 2016
Location: 
St. Louis, MO
Posts: 
1,720
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Went back inside the 1121's original metal TG. Chucked the sear pin, trigger pin and hammer pin in my drill and polished them, working up to 1500 grit (320, 400, 1000, 1500). Just 5-10 seconds with each level of grit. Also lubed all these pins, as well as the trigger return spring and piston.

Trigger is now pulling in the 2.75# range, and often down to 2.5#.

Remember that this TG was pulling at 5.5# stock. The lighter Wolff return spring probably took off a pound, but all the rest is just polishing/lubing. Might try clipping the sear spring 1/2 coil at a time to see what happens (I have a spare).

Did the same to my BX, but no effect. It is still at 1.6 - 1.75#.

Last edited by Tom_in_MO; 11-10-2019 at 11:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-10-2019, 12:49 PM
Tom_in_MO's Avatar
Tom_in_MO
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Apr 2016
Location: 
St. Louis, MO
Posts: 
1,720
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Installed the bobby pin mod to the metal TG (in place of the return spring/piston behind the trigger). Pull weight now hovers around 2.0 - 2.25#, sometimes slightly higher or lower. Pre-travel/freeplay is about 2mm, and creep is about 1mm before it breaks. If you're pulling slow and gradually, the creep is like a warning that the break is about to happen. I like it; like a glass-break but with a little heads-up. And of course the slight gritty feel from even a modded stock return spring setup is now completely gone.

It feels pretty much like my stock (not BX) Brimstone Tier 2 TG!

So in this case it's not even a $3.50 Wolff lighter return spring, it's just a $000.05 bobby pin! And lotsa polishing TLC of course.

Last edited by Tom_in_MO; 11-10-2019 at 01:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-11-2019, 09:49 PM
Tom_in_MO's Avatar
Tom_in_MO
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Apr 2016
Location: 
St. Louis, MO
Posts: 
1,720
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Shot my other 10/22 (1151, sporter barrel) with this metal TG with the bobby pin mod. It would not reset. I can change the bobby pin to contact the trigger farther back, which will increase the reset weight via more leverage. I'll give it a go. Pull weight will go up slightly, but the grittiness of the stock return setup will still be gone.

Knowing this might happen once the TG was back in the gun, I brought along another TG and replaced the metal one, and continued shooting. Not uncommon for triggers to behave differently when testing outside the gun, and when installed.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-12-2019, 05:07 PM
Tom_in_MO's Avatar
Tom_in_MO
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Apr 2016
Location: 
St. Louis, MO
Posts: 
1,720
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
After shooting the 1121 about 50 rounds, this is what the receiver looks like. Just made the slightest dent in the paint inside. Tonight I'm gonna sand it down to get rid of it. The original bolt looks similarly unused.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1121 receiver inside.jpg (315.0 KB, 2 views)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-12-2019, 06:51 PM
gcrank1's Avatar
gcrank1

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Location: 
south central WI, USA
Posts: 
3,482
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
Been following your adventures with this
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-12-2019, 11:41 PM
Tom_in_MO's Avatar
Tom_in_MO
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Apr 2016
Location: 
St. Louis, MO
Posts: 
1,720
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcrank1 View Post
Been following your adventures with this
Thanks. Hoping to get the BX Brimstone Tier 2 trigger pull weight down a bit more with the thinner gauge wire I ordered. But frankly, I am leaning toward a Kidd two-stage, 8oz/8oz for this gun. Shooting an older Anshutz 1413 last week with a 2oz trigger just destroyed me for anything less than trigger excellence. However good I can get the BX trigger to be, it will likely become a hand-me-down to my sporter-barrel gun, after CPC gets done with the barrel and stock bolt.

I strongly considered going Brimstone Tier 1 for the 1121, but reading people's feedback that it is similar to the Tier 2, I started thinking about Kidd. But here's the thing: I don't necessarily believe that the Kidd trigger will give me smaller groups than a Brimstoned BX will. My main reason to buy one is just the physical, even sensuous, feel of a great light two-stage.

The next step, if there is to be a next step, would be either a Shilen 20" bull barrel upgrade for the sporter, or just go for a full Kidd build.

I'm starting to scare myself now.....
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-13-2019, 06:18 AM
crackedcornish's Avatar
crackedcornish
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2006
Posts: 
4,211
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_in_MO View Post
Hoping to get the BX Brimstone Tier 2 trigger pull weight down a bit more with the thinner gauge wire I ordered. :
there are no "tiers" available for the Brimstone BX's, the only options are for the color of the trigger blade
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-13-2019, 09:34 AM
Tom_in_MO's Avatar
Tom_in_MO
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Apr 2016
Location: 
St. Louis, MO
Posts: 
1,720
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by crackedcornish View Post
there are no "tiers" available for the Brimstone BX's, the only options are for the color of the trigger blade
Thank you for the clarification! I was unaware of that. That must be why I was unable to successfully tap the hole for the Tier 1 mod to my BX Brimstone. I've been thinking of it as a Tier 2 because you get their blade and internal parts, not just work on your parts like a stock-trigger Tier 3. I didn't have them do it on my BX, I just ordered the parts kit.

For reference, here is the link to Brimstone's BX trigger work page.

Last edited by Tom_in_MO; 11-13-2019 at 09:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-13-2019, 05:27 PM
Tom_in_MO's Avatar
Tom_in_MO
US Army Veteran

Join Date: 
Apr 2016
Location: 
St. Louis, MO
Posts: 
1,720
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Back from the range, with some interesting results. At 25 yards, bipod and bag, 12X, CTC measurements.

Today I shot both SK Magazine and SK Pistol Match Special, using the JWH bolt from the sporter 10/22. Used the same target as before, for easy comparison. I wanted to compare SK Mag with PMS, and the JWH bolt with the stock one (using PMS for both).

Oddly enough it shot worse with the JWH than with the stock bolt!

Three factors were different from the previous test:
sanded inside the receiver to remove paint
substituted the JWH bolt for the stock one; plus Kidd recoil spring/rod/bolt handle, and a nylon bolt stop
didn't clean the barrel before shooting today.

So I am going to go shoot it again tmw with a clean barrel. It did cycle much smoother today, due to the sanding, the radiused JWH bolt, and the Kidd parts. As far as today's results, it may be that I now have a barrel that is more finicky about regular cleaning.

Target notes:
circled numbers are the average for all six groups in that row
underlined numbers are with tossing out the one large group in each row
first group of SK PMS was directly after shooting the SK Mag; so apparently I still needed some PMS lubers before transitioning
last group of the SK Mag had a squib--didn't even cycle the bolt--so I didn't count that shot (should have re-shot it)
the .09" is the second-best group of 5 shots I have ever shot in any gun; the best is .03" with the CZ 457 Trainer
bottom row was 10 shots of SK PMS shot by the RSO on duty; 9 of 10 = .16" CTC. So maybe it was me today; or more likely, John is just a better shot.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1121 JWH full.jpg (241.2 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by Tom_in_MO; 11-13-2019 at 06:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-13-2019, 07:31 PM
Clem-E's Avatar
Clem-E

Join Date: 
Mar 2007
Location: 
North TX
Posts: 
3,549
TPC Rating: 
100% (9)
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-13-2019, 07:55 PM
gcrank1's Avatar
gcrank1

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Location: 
south central WI, USA
Posts: 
3,482
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
Im glad Ive got 'out to 50yd.' in my backyard, it really does show the spread better so evaluation is easier. The downside is that my groups do NOT look near as good as yours (lol)
And now that deep winter has come (ie, it is absolutely like Jan in Nov) to my corner of this planet it could be a good long time until I can sit back there and get some quality time in.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:54 AM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x