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  #31  
Old 04-15-2017, 07:59 AM
cmatera
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steal Shooter View Post
Cmatera

Where did you find a ray Vin for sale? Interested as I need a hunting hmr. My Alexander is my bench gun. Thanks

Here:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...R#Post11809681
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  #32  
Old 04-15-2017, 10:11 AM
Raghorn

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Something is wrong.
Tales of new Marlins, Savages and CZ 455s shooting 100 yard groups under one inch are the norm.
I canít begin to guess what, but something is off.
My glass bedded my 455, and with stock trigger will put Hornady V-maxs under Ĺ inch over and over again.
Roughly half my groups are in the .3s
Iím not bragging, Iím positive there are members here on Rimfirecentral who could take my 455 and shoot .2s or better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Claims of sub-moa "all day long" are most likely shot at 30 yards or less.
At a range measured 100 yards,
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  #33  
Old 04-15-2017, 11:10 AM
jaia
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Really? We're gonna play this game?
100 yards, consistent 0.2's 0.3's? Really?
Alright, that makes you the winner of the rimfire ammo lottery.
The folks at the local range know better than to make that claim when I'm there..
I'll offer 'em a free target to shoot and a free box of Hornady V-Max to prove it.
Then sit down an watch them shoot. Yeah, they do pretty good, but not shot after shot.
Here's the target I use...



Link to 8.5x11pdf

30 dots, 30 shots, 100 yards, 17 hmr
Center dot is 0.10" diameter
Inside diameter of ring is 0.5"
Outside diameter of ring is 0.6"


Top of target below when shot was left side of image



On my best day I'm lucky to hit half the bullseyes.
The ammunition won't allow me to do any better
and the ballistic chronograph confirms the reason why.
Muzzle Velocities ranging from 2300 fps to 2800 fps.
Vertical spread caused by differences in muzzle velocity.
That is not precision ammo, no how, no way.


If you really do have the skills and setup/ammunition to back up your claims
any or all of ya', join us on the RFC CZ Forum 100 yard challenge.
I'm more than willing to lose to those with better skills and better rifles.
Shoot whatever brand of 17hmr rifle you have.

Consistent target results will always speak louder than keyboard bragging.

What's interesting is the winners of the past 100 yard monthly challenges
are usually shooting match quality 22lr, not 17 hmr.

Last edited by jaia; 04-15-2017 at 12:04 PM.
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  #34  
Old 04-15-2017, 12:08 PM
Raghorn

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post

100 yards, consistent 0.2's 0.3's? Really?
Take a deep breath, and go back and read my post slowly.
I said consistant "under Ĺ inch", with half in the .3s
I also said a better shooter could probably hit .2s.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Consistent target results will always speak louder than keyboard bragging.
I have posted a number of target photos in the claimed .3s
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  #35  
Old 04-15-2017, 12:19 PM
jaia
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No worries, it's that phrase "all day long" that sets me off.
Too many keyboard kommandos claiming consistent results with rimfire ammunition
be it 22lr, 17hmr, 22wmr, 17hm2 that base their comments on a couple of groups
shot last week under perfect conditions when no one was watching.
The only thing consistent about rimfire is it's inconsistent target results at 100 yards.
Time of flight and variations in mv preclude precision results.

Consistent accuracy does not mean one tight group on this target, 2 more on that target.
It means shot after shot after shot, target after target. That just doesn't occur with the 17 hmr.
The quality of the ammunition won't let it.

The invitation to join us in the CZ 100 yard challenge stands.
We can always use another shooter that can get the job done.
Best be thick-skinned, we do tend to poke fun at each other as targets are posted.

Last edited by jaia; 04-15-2017 at 12:33 PM.
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  #36  
Old 04-15-2017, 09:57 PM
m00n
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It's been a while since I've shot groups with my 17hmr but the groups below are about typical under "decent" (not too breezy) shooting conditions. On average, 0.75" 5-shot groups at 100yds are about what I've come to expect with my unmodified rifle off the bench. Best groups were around 0.4" when no ugly fliers occurred to spoil things. I have no complaints, it's a great small varmint round but there are better choices for target shooting.


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  #37  
Old 04-16-2017, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallguy606 View Post
Guess I got lucky. A few years back I bought a Marlin 917VS in .17 at a pawnshop. Already had a Sweet 17 scope on it. The gun will put three 17-gr bullets into 3/8 inch off the bench at 100 yards. Wish I still lived in prairie dog country.
I second the Marlin!! I bought 917v in pawn shop, with swift 3.5-10. $260 out the door, went right to the range and could easy put a 7 round mag in a 1" square at 100 yrd. So i found another marlin 917 with nice laminate stock in different pawn shop last fall, same $260 out the door, with simmons 3-9. I put a Simmons whitetale 6.5x20-50 from midway on it for $114 mostly cause i wanted a bench gun, and my other is my squirrle gun. It shoots tighter groups then my first marlin.

so maybe i got lucky twice!

This was a 10 shot group at 100 yards, i shot Sighting in my 917 laminate with 6.5-20. This was the first 10 shot group after getting it dialed in. 1 1/2 inches apart furthest group. Shot off a rest on a crappy folding table. So poke all the fun you want at me and my marlin. I am not bench shooter, i shoot bench 3-4 times a year to make sure my rifles are dialed in for hunting.

IMHO i dont think you need to break the bank on a HMR, unless your serious comp shooting.
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...1&d=1492349518

Last edited by Ltrain65; 01-10-2018 at 06:14 PM.
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  #38  
Old 04-16-2017, 08:21 AM
DJMHOYT
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Whew, I thought it was me and my buddies, 3 new .17HMR, a Savage with a heavy barrel, A RAR with a compact barrel ( loud !) and mine, A Ruger 77/17 with about the crappiest trigger I have ever experienced. My buddies lured me into this, The Ruger is the laminated stock, semi heavy target gray varmint model. I bought and they bought almost every type of .17HMR ammo available. What an education. Perfect morning, temp in high 60's, sheltered range - zero wind, 50 yds, solid bench, bags and quality rests,
Thanks to reading through all of this and other posts, UNLESS - we re- barrel, buy expensive triggers, buy ANSCHUTZ rifles ( maybe a CZ) etc. etc. the .17HMR is never going to be more than a fun chuck round.
Very disappointed.
I have Anschutz .22lr rifles and CZ .22lr rifles , I was looking forward to the .17HMR as a fun alternate. While the two somewhat inexpensive rifles don't IMHO owe us much, the Ruger 77/17 is the most expensive disappointment I have ever owned. So , now I will look into fixing the Ruger to at least be an acceptable average - dump it and get an Anschutz, or just drop out of the .17HMR game altogether. If anybody here can point me in an interesting direction - well I am here to learn! Thanks.
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  #39  
Old 04-16-2017, 08:39 AM
DJMHOYT
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And I quote
"On my best day I'm lucky to hit half the bullseyes.
The ammunition won't allow me to do any better
and the ballistic chronograph confirms the reason why.
Muzzle Velocities ranging from 2300 fps to 2800 fps.
Vertical spread caused by differences in muzzle velocity.
That is not precision ammo, no how, no way."

Absolutely the truth and the FACTS of the matter,
we bough t our rifles based on our perception that they were equally as accurate as .22lr - IMO no how, no way , never. I have an 2007 Kimber K22 hunter - paid 700 for it years ago, it will shoot 50 yard .5 average with affordable target ammo - Eley yellow box target - $7.50 per box, we never saw anything close to a .5 group with .17HMR.
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  #40  
Old 04-16-2017, 10:17 AM
jaia
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Consistent accuracy is not what the 17 hmr produces.
No doubt if you get a run of similar muzzle velocities this can happen...




But the very next shot spits out 300 fps faster and you're left with this...



It's rimfire, we're limited by ammo quality.
If you want better results, you'll have to go centerfire and handload.

Or, give up on shooting at anything beyond 30 yards.
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  #41  
Old 04-16-2017, 12:36 PM
m00n
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For posting on shooting forums, just place a dime over the flier and you're good.
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  #42  
Old 04-17-2017, 01:17 PM
Steal Shooter

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Well I am glad to see that I am not alone. I look at the 17hmr and so far short of an Alexander Arms I have not had any luck. I do have 2 bmags at home that will shoot circles around around the 17hmr I have tested. So I want a light wait tack driver without having to go to Centerfires, which seems inevitable. Since there is little to no quality control on rimfire I am leaning towards a franklin armory spr when the funds appropriate. That or an anschutz 1517 mpr. And weigh my rounds out to try and help consistency.
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  #43  
Old 04-17-2017, 02:44 PM
jaia
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weigh my rounds out to try and help consistency

Been there, tried that, did not help.
500 rounds of 17 hmr weighed, grouped by weight, tested across a chronograph.
Waste of 3 hours sorting/weighing, as has been confirmed repeatedly by others.
Only good that weighing did was finding empty cartridges in bulk rimfire ammo.
Too many variables involved in such small cartridges.
Is it the bullet, the brass, the powder, the primer, the seating depth, case volume
that is responsible for the variations in muzzle velocities? Weighing didn't establish anything.

Last edited by jaia; 04-17-2017 at 02:51 PM.
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  #44  
Old 04-17-2017, 05:09 PM
Steal Shooter

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Well thanks for saving me the trouble. Looks like if I want to shoot groups get an anschutz or cz lilja in .22lr and good ammo
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  #45  
Old 04-17-2017, 06:42 PM
DJMHOYT
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Didn't want to just bash the .17HMR, but , yes, affordable above average grade .22lr ammo in an average grade or of course better .22 will out shoot the 3 .17HMR rifles I experienced. Disappointing that Hornady and CCi aren't interested in producing better quality ammo, accurate guns are way more interesting than the average accuracy provided by the .17HMR. It's not like this isn't popular regardless, maybe that's why they won't fix what for them isn't broke. Still digging on how to accurize my Ruger. I think , though, I will dump it and get an Anschutz .17HMR, at least I can enjoy better than average accuracy and still have a RIMFIRE for small varmints and fun targets. Like you other fellows said, it is the fact it is a RIMFIRE that makes this affordable and disappointing at the same time , compared to the centerfires.
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