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  #31  
Old 06-03-2019, 04:26 AM
stringnut
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1.22 is over one minute of angle. Statistically speaking it is not a Moa rifle. There is no hard and fast number on the amount of groups. As there is no definitive answer you can call it one now if you like. Technically to be a Moa rifle it would have to shoot to that standard every group every time. Some rifles are capable of that, but, as shooter I am not.
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  #32  
Old 06-03-2019, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbore View Post
I shot two 5 shot overlapping groups on the center bull. One 5 shot group was .383 and the other was 1.22". Proof!
A guaranteed way to shoot a one hole group is to only put on shot on the target.
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  #33  
Old 06-03-2019, 07:36 AM
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Isnt that the best way!
Kidding aside, shooting a multi-bull card that you can do a composite from and also identify each shot in the sequence and, perhaps more importantly, for sure and certain 'call the flyers' (errors) should show it well.
Then there is if the ammo is moa capable in that rifle and, if so, at what distance(s).
Is a 'moa package' at 25 and 50yd still an moa package if it cant at 100?
As a Half Century biker the analogy that keeps coming to mind is a motorcycle that has done 100mph a 100mph mc if it got there once, sometimes, most or all of the time?
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  #34  
Old 06-03-2019, 10:00 AM
Bigbore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stringnut View Post
1.22 is over one minute of angle. Statistically speaking it is not a Moa rifle. There is no hard and fast number on the amount of groups. As there is no definitive answer you can call it one now if you like. Technically to be a Moa rifle it would have to shoot to that standard every group every time. Some rifles are capable of that, but, as shooter I am not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
A guaranteed way to shoot a one hole group is to only put on shot on the target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcrank1 View Post
shooting a multi-bull card that you can do a composite from and also identify each shot in the sequence and, perhaps more importantly, for sure and certain 'call the flyers' (errors) should show it well.
Then there is if the ammo is moa capable in that rifle and, if so, at what distance(s).
Is a 'moa package' at 25 and 50yd still an moa package if it cant at 100?
The discussion is starting to move into the area I was hoping. The OP was never about correcting the previous poor performance, it was about observing the pattern.

I do think numbers can be applied. I'm not a statistician but I'll start by saying anything over 50% makes the case. The higher the percentage the more likely its MOA. IMO, to look at the to groups that clearly show 80% consistent MOA performance and dismiss it is, well, unscientific?

Now, is the course of joking around to some degree, gcrank1 brought up a common debate in the shooting circles:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...n-vs-accuracy/

This is not the definitive guide, just an example.

Another thing of note though, when I shift to different bulls on paper, I do see POI shifts sometimes, all else being equal, so that needs to be considered when making observations.

Finally, The thread is about a gun's mechanical accuracy by which I mean shooter excluded, gun, ammo is relevant in this case.

Last edited by Bigbore; 06-03-2019 at 10:04 AM.
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  #35  
Old 06-06-2019, 06:48 PM
DimeNut
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I would back that scope mount up so it is in full contact with the receiver and then move the scope forward in the rings to get the desired eye relief. Not saying that is a factor but the mounting looks funky and doesn't provide full contact stability.
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  #36  
Old 06-06-2019, 06:59 PM
Mossbergman
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When you shoot 3 overlapping shots the next two put the pressure on messes with your head and it easier for the average decnet shooter to mess up his start of a grest group , ever shoot 4 shots in a ragged hole and almost just hate to shoot that last one ~~JMJ~~
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  #37  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empe View Post
A 1 MOA gun will shoot into 1 MOA ...that is 1" at 100 yds. and 1/2" at 50 yds. If it's not meeting that criteria then it's not a 1 MOA gun . If you exclude all shots that land outside of 1 MOA then any gun can be a 1 MOA gun .
Provided you have one within the MOA circle.......

Or, you could just move the point of aim to the best point for proof......

B2
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  #38  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:35 PM
Bigbore
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Originally Posted by Mossbergman View Post
When you shoot 3 overlapping shots the next two put the pressure on messes with your head and it easier for the average decnet shooter to mess up his start of a grest group , ever shoot 4 shots in a ragged hole and almost just hate to shoot that last one ~~JMJ~~
I did exactly that on the center group. I wanted to stop before I finished.

This is at 25 yards with an Archangel stock, Green Mountain heavy taper and IIRC CCI Tac also. Scope is an ATN digital thingy(skip to 1:35):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdbr3j7tf2Y
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  #39  
Old 06-06-2019, 10:13 PM
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If you want to call it an MOA gun, then call it one. It's your gun, you can do what you want.
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  #40  
Old 06-07-2019, 07:05 AM
Bigbore
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Originally Posted by IHMSA80x80 View Post
If you want to call it an MOA gun, then call it one. It's your gun, you can do what you want.
Thanks man. Your analysis throughout the thread has brought real clarity to the issue.
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  #41  
Old 06-07-2019, 09:20 AM
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I believe my pet rhinoceros is a unicorn...

The clarity Bigbore is that a MOA at 50 yards is .5235 inch. The evidence provided by you, even excluding obvious flyers is that the rifle is shooting outside of 1 MOA.

Whether it is or isn't capable of better performance is undetermined but that day, based on that target, it was absolutely not a 1 MOA rifle.

Frank
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  #42  
Old 06-07-2019, 10:55 AM
Bigbore
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Originally Posted by LtCrunch View Post
The clarity Bigbore is that a MOA at 50 yards is .5235 inch. The evidence provided by you, even excluding obvious flyers is that the rifle is shooting outside of 1 MOA
Wow, ya just can't phight physics. What was I thinkin'? Thanks for bringing me back inside the guard rails, I was really out there for a while.

This thread has taught me something, everybody on this forum knows what MOA @ 50 yards is...………, uh, except me.
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  #43  
Old 06-07-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigbore View Post
Wow, ya just can't phight physics. What was I thinkin'? Thanks for bringing me back inside the guard rails, I was really out there for a while.

This thread has taught me something, everybody on this forum knows what MOA @ 50 yards is..., uh, except me.
What this brings to mind is "Forums 101" Rule #7 - Don't ask questions when you may not like the answers.

As IHMSA says, if you want to call it an MOA gun, then do so. But YOU asked the question, so either accept the answers or close the thread if it upsets you.

Sorry - that kind of a day - but the statement stands.
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  #44  
Old 06-07-2019, 11:34 AM
Bigbore
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Originally Posted by SailDesign View Post
What this brings to mind is "Forums 101" Rule #7 - Don't ask questions when you may not like the answers.

As IHMSA says, if you want to call it an MOA gun, then do so. But YOU asked the question, so either accept the answers or close the thread if it upsets you.

Sorry - that kind of a day - but the statement stands.
C'mon SD, you have to know how thick my skin is.

My sarcasm only serves to question the value of a contribution. From bleeding obvious to just overt heckling.
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  #45  
Old 06-07-2019, 11:44 AM
Bigbore
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What this brings to mind is "Forums 101" Rule #7 - Don't ask questions when you may not like the answers.
BTW, I still think I'm right and can't understand why nobody agrees with me.
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