Stocks (10/22) and Cheek Weld/Sight Alignment - Page 2 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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  #16  
Old 01-04-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
That's cheating. I sold mine; what a beauty it was.
LOL, I still have mine, bought another and put a scope on that one!
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  #17  
Old 01-04-2019, 05:20 PM
mojo-jojo
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Appleseed was meant for rack grade rifles and iron sights. Unfortunately for some of us with poorer vision and or older eyes, irons are not doable and a 3-4 power scope is neccessary. What works for me is the Ruger modular stock with the extended length of pull and cheek riser. Combined with a Kidd extended low scope base and low rings, I can push the nikon efr far enough forward to get a proper repeatable cheek weld.

I don't consider this an equipment race or gain, it's what I need to shoot well. I still have to focus on all the other aspects of the shot. It's not a magic wand that guarantees me a rifleman score. I have a beautiful mannlicher stock that I'd love to use but for me it's not conducive to 3 position shooting.
I could use it and probably do well, but proper cheek weld would be one more thing I would need to think about instead of settling into it naturally.
The point being all your equipment must work together
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  #18  
Old 01-04-2019, 06:59 PM
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Back to the original comments about the cheek weld issue, the Appleseeds in my area have come up with a temporary solution to use on the line. They use pieces of foam to build up the cheekweld, then use vet tape, that bandage type stuff that only sticks to itself to hold it in place. Works fantastic. They use vet tape because it comes in better colors than the stuff for humans, usually black.
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  #19  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:35 PM
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I am not knocking upgrading equipment at all, but Appleseed is a basic teaching opportunity for all in basics of rifle marksmanship. After experiencing that the only limits are either your wallet or imagination.

Anyway, just my opinion, worth whatever anyone paid.
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  #20  
Old 01-05-2019, 03:30 PM
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Although it is certainly true that a rifescope will usually need to be mounted much farther forward (toward the muzzle) for shooting prone than it will for shooting standing or supported from a bench, where exactly the rear of the ocular winds up depends on a number of factors such as shooter anatomy, eye relief of the particular rifle scope, and the length of pull (LOP) of the stock.

I have scopes mounted on two Ruger 10/22s. One is a 3-9x40 and the other a 4x32. One 10/22 is mounted on a Magpul Hunter X22 stock and the other a Ruger wooden carbine stock. Although I think my neck length is relatively proportionate to the rest of my body size, my arms seem to be about 1 1/2" longer than would be expected for my height and torso length. The LOP of a typical Ruger carbine stock is too short for me.

On the Magpul X22 stock, I use all of the stock spacers. The stock usually comes with two of the four installed. The additional 2 spacers makes the LOP 2 inches longer at 14.5". With the standard Ruger carbine wooden stock I have fitted a John Masen recoil pad that increases the LOP to 14.5":

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/100...d-rubber-black

Needless to say, with the increased LOP when I drop my cheek naturally down on the stock, it winds up being an inch farther back on the comb than it would for a 13.5" LOP. On my wooden stock Ruger, the Beartooth comb riser kit works fine for that positioning. On my Magpul Hunter X22 stock, the shortest comb riser suffices.

I position my scopes based on the prone shooting position which for me is the least forgiving when it comes to fore and aft scope position. I place the ocular of the scope just far enough forward that I have a full field of view with no vignetting at the highest magnification I intend to use. For me, this positions the ocular of the scopes on both my 10/22s almost exactly 1" behind the rear edge of the receiver, the amount by which I have increased the LOP of the stock.

Whether or not you need to mount your scope farther forward than straight up rings allow depends a bit on the scope dimensions as well as its eye relief. With some compact scopes with a short ocular bell and a short rear tube, you might possibly get by with vertical rings. But the stock Ruger accessory rail will probably not allow most scopes to be mounted correctly with straight vertical rings. Although one-piece cantilever scope mounts are very nice, they tend to be pricey, and there are several cheaper options that will work.

One is an extended Picatinny rail that fits the Ruger 10/22 receiver. Evolution Gun Works makes a very nice one:

http://www.amazon.com/Ruger-10-22-Pi.../dp/B004VIANJA

This is a true Picatinny rail that will work with all Picatinny and Weaver spec rings and has more mounting slot options than the stock Ruger Weaver/dovetail accessory rail. The front of this rail will extend right up to the rear of the Ruger stock rear sight leaf when it is flipped up, but you will not be able to use the stock Ruger sights with it as the rail itself will obscure your sight picture. But it will allow you to mount nearly any riflescope in the proper position using straight-up, vertical rings.

There are also two-piece ring sets with one extension ring and one vertical ring. I have used these Weaver rings with good results:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Weaver-49048...Bjwh:rk:7:pf:0

These are sometimes found on ebay for just under $13 a set. Although the ring height is described by Weaver as "high" the saddle height for these rings (top surface of rail to bottom of scope tube) is actually only .332", just barely high enough to allow me to mount my 3-9x40 scope. But the forward extension on the extension ring is less than 1" which is just enough for me to properly mount that scope with its ocular 1" behind the receiver body. It may not be enough extension for many.

Hawke makes similar sets of extension rings with either a 1" or a 2" forward extension:

http://www.opticsplanet.com/hawke-sp...ion-rings.html

These have a higher saddle mounting height than the Weaver Quad Lock rails. The 2" extension model should allow virtually any riflescope to be mounted on the stock Ruger accessory rail.

My solution to trying to achieve a consistent cheek weld is to position my head just far enough forward to get a complete field of view through my scopes without vignetting. As I said before, the scopes are positioned just far enough forward to provide for that when my head is positioned with a natural cheek weld when shooting prone. When shooting sitting, I need to "turkey neck" my head forward just slightly to achieve the same head position. When shooting standing, I need to turkey neck forward quite a bit more.

I have not shot using a stock with an adjustable LOP. If I had one, I suspect I would shorten the LOP somewhat when shooting offhand standing.
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  #21  
Old 01-10-2019, 05:06 PM
Bobasan
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Here is a picture of a simple Kydex setup and one of those $10 butt extensions to get the standard stock to a more ergonomic configuration. The Kydex is mounted via Velcro, the loop (soft) side is on the stock and the hook is on the inside of the Kydex piece. Pretty much anyone can put this together.


As for the reasons for adding a cheek rest and butt extension to a 10-22 for Appleseed, the 10-22 is pretty far ergonomically from the "rack grade" rifles used by the military. Getting one to fit more like a service rifle really does require the additions even with the Tech Sights.
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  #22  
Old 03-29-2019, 08:18 PM
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navybowhunter -

Yes, my 10/22s are basically gear "basic" in the LTR vein. The Tech Sighted version, and the one with the inexpensive Bushnell 3-9x32mm Rimfire scope.

I never did get around to acquiring the Vet wrap to build up the pool noodle for the scope. Need to push that project forward. Thanks for reminding me.


Bobasan -

I like that Kydex setup.
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  #23  
Old 03-29-2019, 08:43 PM
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A 6" square piece of kydex and a heat gun.
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  #24  
Old 03-29-2019, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navybowhunter View Post
An example of a cheap costing stock that works VERY well would be the Blackhawk Axiom 10/22 stock. That is a great stock, as the length of pull is adjustable and it uses an AR style buttstock that allows for a very repeatable cheek weld. It will also FREE FLOAT your barrel.

I have one complaint with the BlackHawk Axiom, the buttstock it comes with is flimsy....side to side and up/down play. Easy enough to fix....I just slapped a MAGPUL CTR buttstock on it. That got rid of all wobble. It also allows the attachment of MAGPUL cheek risers, of which are cheap in cost.

The other stock I like is the MAGPUL X22 stock. That is a phenomenal stock but costs a lot more than the Blackhawk. It also allows for clip on cheek risers, so you can get that perfect cheek weld.
I have two with newer Axiom stocks, and neither suffers from play - in fact, they are too tight to adjust easily. And Blackhawk sells a dandy snap-on riser.
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  #25  
Old 04-15-2019, 08:41 PM
Bobasan
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Here is a full picture my rifle for Appleseed and NRL22 stock shoots. Without the buttpad and cheekrest a knucle dragger like me just can't hope to mount the rifle properly.

Navybowhunter,

The Velcro'd on cheek riser can be made by anyone for around $5
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Last edited by Bobasan; 04-15-2019 at 08:43 PM.
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  #26  
Old 04-16-2019, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobasan View Post
Here is a full picture my rifle for Appleseed and NRL22 stock shoots. Without the buttpad and cheekrest a knucle dragger like me just can't hope to mount the rifle properly.

Navybowhunter,

The Velcro'd on cheek riser can be made by anyone for around $5
Absolutely that works

As does a pool noodle with a little tape.

BUT......

Only for recreational shooting. That would be illegal/against the rules for CMP Rimfire Sporter competition.

A lot of stuff will absolutely work, and as many have posted, it seems we all somewhat agree, that an out of the box stock 10/22 is not ideal for cheek weld, especially with a scope.

I offered what does work, and works for competition as well.

R/
Chris
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  #27  
Old 04-16-2019, 09:49 AM
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Lots here to think about in terms of fit for varying positions. Reminds me somewhat of all the stuff Ive read through the decades regarding 'fitting a shotgun' to the gunner.
And finally, after at least a couple of years searching by me, actual useable info about stock length vs eye relief/head position, etc. for the different positions.
Guess I'll have to throw the Dragonov kit back together....
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