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27 rounds of HMR was all it could take.

4K views 52 replies 12 participants last post by  SwampF0X 
#1 · (Edited)
Here's a pic of my converted .22 lr. Hopefully it will show. Sometimes it is the little red X.


Looks like a factory 10/22, no? It has a Chief Dave type 2 style of conversion. To this I added a factory .22 mag barrel, but all other components were still lr. After shooting 100 rounds of mag ammo through it with no stovepipes, FTF, feeding problems, or case head bulging, I felt that the conversion was a success. So it was time to try a hummer. After reading the instructions from Brownells, I thought I would try to line a lr barrel. This was an adventure in itself. If anyone's interested I can post a write up, but it will be long. The main problem in making the barrel was reamer chatter. That means that I wound up with a rough camber. After finishing the barrel, I fired 9 rounds of CCI hollow points to be sure that it would function. It worked with a little case head bulging so I ordered a .22 mag handle and spring for it. I installed the base/scope and thought that I would rough sight the scope in so when at the range the hits would at least be on the paper. Since the CCI seemed to work ok with the lr handle I didn't think that a few rounds would hurt anything. I picked up some Federal V-Max just to try some different rounds through the rifle. It shot the first magazine fine. On round number 24 the bolt didn't close completely. The reason was round 23 had taken the extractor out and the spring/plunger was holding the bolt open. I think that it jarred the extractor out as the case was dented very badly but was not ruptured, it sounded the same as the others, and the bullet impact was in the same area. I just removed the spring/plunger and was going to finish the rest of the magazine. After the last round when I moved my hand I felt something with my thumb and looked down to see this.





It looks like the buffer pushed on the stock hard enough to break it. At this point I thought it was a good time to stop. At home I stripped the rifle and checked the receiver for damage or cracks. The receiver appears to be ok, but I found these marks on the trigger assembly.





These were not there when shooting with the .22 mag ammo. It seems that the bolt is really bouncing around in the receiver with the HMR. Will the mag handle and spring stop this or is there something else going on?

Here is a pic of the fired rounds.



L to R: .22 mag, .17 CCI, .17 Fed, and #23

Reversed in the next pic



Here's a pic of the .22 mag beside the "Factory" .17 barrel.



What an adventure this little project has been.
 
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#2 ·
I'm unclear on if you had the magnum bolt handle and spring as well as the hammer return spring installed?
I haven't had any problems out of mine but I have both of those two parts installed and I'm only shooting .22 mags out of mine. the recoil is noticably more than a .22lr but not much of a problem. I also added about an ounce and half to two ounces to the bolt.
it looks like the bolt got a little bit of velocity going.
I'm working on another trigger housing because I think I found an easier and better way.
 
#3 · (Edited)
The magnum handle is ordered, I just thought I would go ahead and sight the scope while waiting for it. Guess I shouldn't have. The cases didn't bulge very much so I thought it would be ok to fire a few rounds with the lr handle/spring. As far as I can tell the hammer spring is the same in the lr or magnum. The magnum ammo seemed to work very well with the lr handle/spring.

I was thinking of painting the stock anyway. :D Looks like I will for sure now.

Forgot to post the specs:
Factory receiver and stock
Factory .22 Magnum barrel
Lined .22lr barrel to .17HMR barrel
My extended mag release
Clark hammer
PC Custom scope base
Weaver mounts (all our local dealer had...perfer Burris)
Simmons 3x9 22 Mag scope
 
#4 · (Edited)
I think with the magnum charging handle and hammer return spring will prevent this from happening again. I'm surprised that you busted your stock without damaging the reciever. the charging handle I installed the only modification I did was to cut it to the .22lr length and installed it.
try it again and let us know... oh, don't forget your shooting glasses.
oh, but the way, great job installing the liner. it looks great. it would be alot of fun taking that to the range and embarassing your friends!
 
#5 · (Edited)
Man! You guys are starting to freak me out!
That had to be one SQUISHED Buffer during recoil, and compressing it to that level requires a LOT of force! :eek:

Also, the LR and Magnum Hammer Springs are different, Gunter.
The LR Hammer Spring is part number (B-44), and the Magnum Hammer Spring is part number (BO4406).
I'm not sure if that would have made a definitive difference, but it likely couldn't hurt. :t
BE CAREFUL! :D

Take Care! - Dakotan
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the replies. I was just looking at Brownells and they show the same hammer spring for both, but I see that Ruger does have different part numbers.

The buffer still looks good. Maybe you can use that for advertising "Stronger than wood" :D Just kidding.

The project is on hold until I can find out what to do.
 
#8 ·
You got "Issues"

The pressure curve of the HM2/HMR is a real "Spikey little Devil" compared to lr. or 22MAG.
First. You NEED to be using Dakotan's MAG buffer, with the extra pad behind the "Normal" buffer. (Use silicone to keep it in there, the sticky back glue loses it's ability to hold in place soon after installing).
Second. You don't need a MAG handle and spring or a heavy bolt handle, just about a 3/4" piece of the factory re-coil spring added to a PC or Wolf re-coil spring.
Third. You need a Wolf or PC Hammer spring, too.
Fourth. You need to decide how you are going to deal with the "spikey" pressure curve.
My best solution to date, is to use a 16-17" barrel, and place the first port of a "Three port" port job at 14.5-15.5". This is a HUGE improvement in the action of the rifle when utilizing 10/22lr action with these Magnum rounds (HM2, also). Contact "Tack". He does a wicked porting job to my specs for really reasonable, and turn around is quick, no nose picking in his camp. :t 200 bucks for "Magna-Port" is ridiculous, IMO.
Just tell him to use my specs on your barrel.
If you choose to leave your barrel long, and not relieve the pressure sooner, it will only be a matter of time before somebody gets hurt. Trust me. You are headed for blown caseheads, and that is a bad deal.
22lr., and 22MAG are a whole different ballgame, with both slower pressure curves, and much more room for the gases to expand into.
 
#11 ·
Gunter:

I'm new here. Did I understand this right: that you converted a 10-22 RF to WMF and then had problems when you went to 17HMR?

:confused:

I read somewhere that bolt weight has to be changed for the 17.

My real question though is (if your gun was originally a 22RF is what all is involved in the conversion? I wouldn't hav thought it safe. I also figured the 22WMR magazine would be longer.

Anyway, I have a 35+ year old 10-22 I might like to convert to 22WMR. Or get a used one and convert it. It's a lot easier around here to find a used 22RF than a 22WMR.

Thanks,

Hal
 
#12 ·
Welcome to RFC!

Just my .02 on that 35 year old 10/22….Save it. Get another one to convert if you decide to go that route. My plinker is a 77 model and my bench is a 78 model. Just love those old walnut stocks.

I too wanted to have a 10/22 WMR and after looking for over a year at pawn and gun shops without finding a used one, I decided to give the conversion a try. Yes, there is a difference in the weight and material between LR and WMR bolts and length of magazines. Chief Dave has 2 types of conversions. The first was to cut some of the rear trigger housing off, move it back and drill a new front pin hole. The drawback to this type is the stock will need to be inletted since the trigger housing is now farther back, the hammer strut needs to be longer or pinned to the hammer, and it changes the bolt timing. The second type of conversion is to move the front face of the trigger housing back to gain the clearance needed for the WMR magazine. This type doesn't have the drawbacks of the first design and Chief Dave is in the process of getting a patent on the housing so we all can have this conversion someday. This was the type of conversion that I used. To read a little on the conversion check these posts: http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42426 and http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81067 . Lots to read in those two threads and as I learned I need to do some more with my conversion for it to be safe. Some people have had no problems with their conversions, while others have had the receiver crack after several hundreds of rounds. I'm sure all that saved mine was the Weaponkraft buffer and it took a beating with the HMR. Right now the extra power springs are on the way and the barrel should be making its way to Tack for porting. I still wonder if my conversion can handle the HMR.

In the .22 LR to .17 MH2 conversions the bolt needs to be heavier or there are other ways to handle the spike. In a straight .22 WMR to .17 HMR it is just a barrel swap. In the LR to ? conversion is where all sorts of variables come up. Skeeter has developed a ball detent to help with bolt timing on his conversion.

Dakotan: After cleaning the buffer really good, it did show some tearing where it went through the receiver. It will be retired and replaced with the magnum buffer.

Tack: Thanks for the help with the porting and cutting.
 
#16 ·
Buffer

I took my Weaponkraft Magnum buffer kit, and went a step further. After installing the rear pad, I cut the buffer pin into two pieces, one to fit flush on each side of the rear pad. Then I have all of the enegy absorbtion qualities, but "Give a place for the buffer to go" when it gets pounded, so that the above picture will not occur. Once Tack has ported your barrel, the action will be a whole bunch more manageable, and if you "Cut to fit" your buffer pin into two pieces, you won't have that problem anymore. After Tack ported my barrels, I don't even adjust my temorary bolt lock adjustable detent plunger anymore, except when I back it off to allow 22lr ammo to cycle. The heavy springs have solved the majority of the remaining issues without ANY added bolt weight. This would not be the case without a short, ported barrel. :t
 
#20 · (Edited)
Just an update.

Installed another VQ extractor, the magnum buffer, and put it back together as a .22 mag. Fired just a few rounds to make sure everything still worked and the repair to the stock held.

Just received the barrel back from Tack and WOW! The porting job looks great and he cut/crowned the end. Tack's work is A+ and very reasonable. :t

Just received the springs too. I need to do some work on the inside of the magnum handle (sounded like nails on the chalkboard when pulling it back) and replace the springs. Then try the HMR again.

Anyone planning to use the Weaponkraft Magnum buffer in the LR conversion... Skeeter had to tell me how to get the bolt in with the extra pad. Drop the handle/rod into the receiver. Start the bolt nose first and let it drop into the receiver. Then push the bolt back as hard as you can until the nose will clear the curved shelf. Lift the bolt slighty and then push the handle back into the cut in the bolt. When in place, push the bolt down and it should snap forward. I cut the buffer in to 2 pieces so that each end touches the pad and are held in by the stock.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Update:

I started with the magnum handle and found that after taking it apart, that the roughness was the finish on the rod. I polished, cut to LR length, reblued the rod, and then cut 3/4" off of the magnum spring. Then install it followed by the PC extra power spring, the bushing, and the magnum handle (only had to get down on the floor to find that bushing once). Then I staked the rod so that the thing would stay together. I also installed the PC extra power hammer spring.

I had touched up the paint on the trigger housing and found that even the .22 mag was causing the bolt to hit the hump. I tried some of the rubber that comes with the mag buffer kit, but it was to thick. I had some that I picked up a while back that was just the right thickness. I cut two strips and CAed them to the housing. It sticks up just a hair above the stepup on the housing.

So it was time to try it as a .22 mag. It fired and cycled fine, but i noticed that the mouths of the cases now where dented....big dent. After looking for the cause I noticed that the handle had some brass colored lines on it. Wiped the thing off and fired another round. Sure enough there was the brass line again. So the handle is causing the dented cases....no big deal just wanted to know what was causing it.

Now for the HMR. Fired one round and looked at the case. IT WAS FLAT....no bulge. Fired another and the same results. So it seems that the beast has been tamed. Fired a full magazine and then inspected the rifle. So far everything looks good. It was getting late so no real range reports yet. The rifle does seem to be louder, enough to make it uncomfortable with out ear protection. The .22 mag and .17 hmr seem to have more of a center fire crack to them.
 
#23 ·
Just wait.

Now your group sizes will be half of what they were before. :t, cycling issues gone (The chamber will still get dirty fast though) and when hunting, you will find that the animals can no longer distinguish the metallic sound of the action. It is the metallic sound that freaks them out, not the boom. Now, with your "Omnidirectional boom", if you miss, they just sit there waiting for you to try again. :t The louder crack gets 'em on their toes at the range, too. :t Plus it looks cool. Tack really should be charging a lot more, but he doesn't want to. :t
 
#25 · (Edited)
Last night the wind finally died down enough to try some groups. One sandbag on the hood of the pickup. 50 yards to the targets. Burned the first shot off to avoid the flyer and fired three rounds at each target. Tried it with and without the barrel band. I was going to post some pics of the targets, but they are just showing up as the little red x.

The best I could get with the Federal Preminum V-Shok was .396 CTC. The worst was .674 CTC without the barrel band. Some groups would be a triangle and some would be a vertical string, so I'm sure that the gun would benefit from being bedded. The best group with the CCI Speer TNT Hollow Point was .293, however it hit about 2" higher than the Federals.

This was not to great or to bad. Since it is basicly a stock 10/22-17 I wasn't expecting one ragged hole. Now the bad news. At round 18 the VQ extractor left the bolt. Again the extractor was gone but the spring and plunger were still in the bolt and holding it open. The case is not rupturing and the bullet is hitting in the same area. This problem doesn't show up using the 22 magnum. So I just removed it and fired a few more groups. Later I tore the rifle down to install another extractor. The magnum buffer pad is taking a beating. It has the areas that the bolt touches beat to about half the thickness of the untouched area. The cases have just a slight, slight dome now...maybe the recoil rod/handle is get a wear pattern and is offering less resistance. So what is going on with my rifle? It would seem that the 17 still needs either a bolt detent or weight added. I see that McMaster Carr has High-Density Tungsten Alloy Rod in different sizes that could be epoxyed into the bolt. So what has everyone done to get the 17 under control or is it just my rifle?
 
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