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My Razor Magnum build (pics)

18K views 147 replies 18 participants last post by  tanakasan 
#1 ·
Well, when I heard that Select Fire was making a revised version of the 10/22 Magnum I was instantly intrigued. So I called my brother, who has more firearms knowledge than I do, and asked if he thought it would be a doable project, he was very encouraging, so I started ordering some parts.

What I wanted was a heavy barreled semi-auto 17hmr. I'm hoping that the Select Fire receiver will be a good platform to pull off the 17hmr. I have a 10/22T that I replaced the trigger group w/a Kidd, so I already have an extra trigger group. I wanted a stainless fluted barrel w/a laminate stock. Finding a barrel proved more difficult than I expected, so ended up w/a blued non fluted .920 barrel from E.R. Shaw. I ordered a laminate stock from Stocky's, they called a few days later and told me they were out of stock, but could back order it, I said no and ordered a Hogue magnum .920 stock. I ordered a power custom magnum hammer spring, the rest of the parts came from Select Fire (buffer, pins, v-block). I also ordered the fixture and drill bit kit from Select Fire, and a 11/16" reamer from Grizzly.

Cost breakdown......All prices are to the door
receiver kit (w/bolt), buffer, pins, v-block, fixture, drill bits.............$390
Hogue .920 magnum stock............................................................$85
E.R. Shaw .920, 18" 17 HMR barrel, blued.....................................$132
Trigger Group, already had as spare...............................................$000
Power Custom hammer spring........................................................$13
Grizzly 11/16" reamer....................................................................$16
................................................................................Total.............$636

I hope to get the receiver finished on thursday, more pics to come.



















 
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#8 ·
That being said...I completed my 17hmr Razor Magnum build tonight. I have to say that the instructions could have been a little clearer or more detailed. The process of putting the magazine detent isn't very clear on how to situate the fixture. So your never 100% confident that your doing the right thing. But everything worked out, I am having a little trouble with the magazine releasing, but that is caused by the Hogue stock. I will clearance that tomorrow.

After the receiver was finished and the rifle was assembled, it was time to put a few rounds through it. It had ftf jams, and a friend noticed the jammed rounds had burrs on them, leading us to believe there was a slight problem with the bolt. I took it back apart and polished, radiused and deburred the bolt face and inside the receiver. After reassembly, I took it outside and put 23 rounds through it flawlessly. I didn't have a scope on it at the time and was only testing for function, I will get out in a few days and test for reliability and accuracy. Select Fire recommends you put 300 rounds through it to break it in, so that's what I'll do. Since it did 23 rounds trouble free, I'm hoping that it's pretty much sorted out. I'll keep you posted.

I would not recommend this project to someone that didn't have access to a mill. Your average guy with a drill press could find himself in over his head.

Also, being a 17hmr, Select Fire recommends playing with the springs ( to slow down the bolt ) if you have jamming issues. I had a Kidd recoil spring kit leftover from another project, and used the Kidd spring that's 10% heavier than stock, and a Power Custom magnum hammer spring, and the stock Select Fire top spring. SO FAR, that seems like it will work, again, time will tell.

Ok, here are the pics.













 
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#9 ·
THAT is a sweet machine! :bthumb:

I agree that this is project requires a great deal of knowledge and equipment. It's not as simple as the website would have us believe. The 20% remaining is a large 20%!

I noticed that the pictures are much better.

Stukpedal, post pics of some initial targets when you get the chance.
 
#10 ·


Nice looking rifle! Please tell how you opened the Hogue magwell to allow the magazine to drop free or at least come out easy. I have the same problem and I'm a little leary about screwing with the molded rubber coating. That's why I'm using the longer 25 round mags so I can get my hands on it and pull out. I had a problem with the bolt face also -- would not allow the rim to slip up into place. I had to clean it out also and it runs like a champ now.
 
#11 ·
Omr....I didn't say it was impossible w/a drillpress, I'm saying a guy should be honest w/himself about his equip. and ability before jumping in.

Boomer, thanks, but I haven't sorted the mag out yet, I will tinker with that in the next few days. I took a pocket knife and trimmed the rubber away around the mag w/little improvement. I either need to sand down the mag well area or make the receiver a little fatter in that area, so it forces the stock to widen. I'll post up when I figure it out.
 
#14 ·
I used the standard v-block kit. I'm not sure of the difference, but I think it it would be used if you were using a 77/17 barrel, in which case you would use a spacer on the barrel. But I'm not sure of that, maybe someone will chime in with more knowledge or experience on the subject.

As far as the Hogue stock, I like the look and feel, but a few of us seem to have magazine release issues with them. I want to tinker with it, but I've had a pounding headache for two days, so I'm not touching it until I feel better.

I wish they made the Hogue in o.d. green or desert tan for the magnum, it would give them a little more "flavor".
 
#16 · (Edited)
I'm using a model 77/22 22 magnum barrel and it required the spacer shim and a little metal wedge that fits in the barrel notch that the V-block goes up against. My barrel fit pretty tight and I didn't seem to have any droop.

I use a SS fluted barrel and you can just see the shim because it's black -- it looks like an extension of the receiver.

I wished the Hogue magnum stock came in OD green but no luck. I'm out of money for this project now so I guess it won't matter if they do come out with one.
 
#18 ·
No apology necessary, any and all input that can help the group as a whole is welcomed.

I decided to clearance my stock tonight. It went smooth, took about 30-40 mins w/a dremel, pocket knife, and a file. I had to take more material than I would have guessed, but it now drops free w/a push of the lever. There are protrusions from either side of the stock, near the trigger group, care needs to be taken to avoid grinding those. They push the stock away from the trigger group, so if they are ground, your problem will be worse. It would be nice if Hogue made those bigger, and were trim to fit, that way you could get a good push on the stock from the trigger group.

I still think I will end up replacing the stock eventually, these are on numerous builds on here, there just aren't a lot of options for the 10/22 mag. IF Boyd's would make their "tacticool" in 22mag, I'd be all over it.

So after I got it back together I loaded 7 rounds and hand cycled the bolt, they all fed and ejected just fine. All I need to do now is get to the range and see how she shoots.

I will post up range results as soon as Noah stops doing victory laps around my house in his love boat, lol.
 
#21 ·
Well I got out to the range today, it was raining when I got there, so I didn't set up any targets, I figured I would site it in w/clay chips @ 50 yards. Long story short...I cleaned it, loaded it, and started shooting. On the last round of the 2nd magazine (50 rounds total through the gun)...This happened...the case burst



Nothing felt or sounded any different, I assumed I just didn't see where the bullet hit. I dropped the mag out and this puppy was stuck in there. The bullet may have still been in the barrel, but as i picked it up to see if the bore was clear, it fell out. So I can't say for sure, But I think that's what happened. Somehow this case was stuck in the magazine, not sure how it happened....not going to try and figure it out...I'm moving on, lol.

So around the 60-70 round range (total rounds through the gun) it crunched a bullet, and then again around 70/80 round mark. There were some mixed problems in there, but these were the worst. But from 80 to 100 rounds (all my numbers are ish ~) it shot great, no hiccups at all.

Until right at about the 100th round...



The extractor broke.

So I'm going to rob the extractor from a spare bolt that I have and try to get back out in a few days.
 
#23 · (Edited)
If you look at the geometry of the center ridge on the bottom of the Razor bolt and compare the same on a factory bolt, it appears to be more squared on the razor bolt (the right side of the ridge if looking at it from the bottom with the top facing up) and more rounded on the factory bolt. I still don't have my build done but determined that the bolt was going to strike the magazine identical to the other post by guitdolin. I've already rounded mine to match the factory bolt more closely but I wonder if that ridge could have struck the case in the magazine and caused that blowout. The other cases look like they have small nicks in the rim also possibly from the same. My extractor was broken upon arrival (bolt was installed and it looked like the extractor had probably hit inside the receiver) however I contacted Phil and he indicated that he would happily send a replacement. Hope we get these cures sorted out... I'm not even slightly discouraged however, this is part of the trade we get for saving sveral hundred dollars on a build instead of a buy... as long as there are solutions, and it sounds like there are... with that said I would have happily paid a few $$ extra and a transfer fee for a completed receiver, it would be nice to have either option
 
#26 · (Edited)
Thanks for the pics. Here they are. Great illustration of what the bolt SHOULD look like in order to pass through the magazine without hitting it. You can't push a square peg (like the Razor bolt) through a round hole in the magazine without some impact. Looks like Ruger figured that out, and they rounded off the corner of that rail on the bolt:



Note the rounded corners and edges all along the bolt face. The Razor bolt, as it comes from Select Fire has very sharp corners and edges, and that sharp corner on the bolt that impacts the back of a live round in the magazine probably acts like a firing pin occasionally. Probably what is causing those shells to go off out of battery.

Here's mosigdude's Razor bolt after he modified it to match the Ruger:



When I talked to Phil Thursday evening, I told him that I'd like him to make this kind of modification to my bolt if I sent it back. He said that he thought it wasn't necessary. He thought what I thought originally - that my magazine was going too far up into the receiver, and that was why the bolt was hitting it. But I told him what others here told me - that the shoulders on the magazine sit on the receiver, and that prevents it from going up into the receiver any further. It's impossible. The problem is that the rail on the Razor bolt is square, and the notches in the Ruger magazine that allow that rail to pass through are round. The bolt needs to be modified to match a Ruger factory bolt so that it can pass through the magazine without hitting it.
 
#27 ·
Thanks for posting the pics, I still haven't touched mine, been busy. I will replace the extractor tmrw, and compare the bolts also, and try to make them as similar as possible. I will round and smooth all of the edges also.

The 4140 steel of the Select Fire makes me want to use it, but I'm dissappointed in the fit and finish. Customers shouldn't have to go through efforts to make this product work. IMO, the bullet pocket issue should be returned to and repaired/replaced by S.F. It should be a higher quality peice.
 
#28 · (Edited)
stukpedal,

if you eventually replace the extractor with the select fire extractor, it will likely require a little fit on the leg that drops down into the hole in the receiver (the part that remained in your bolt, not the part you photographed) Make sure it drops easily into the bolt and the spring and plunger easily come over the top of it once installed. Mine was broken (identical to yours except broken in shipping) and I had to touch the back of the "leg" with a dremel and round the edges of the leg to give it smooth movement like the factory extractor in other bolts. 10 seconds of work might save you the next broken extractor. Best Luck and keep us posted, we're all learning from each other at the moment I think!
 
#31 ·
stukpedal,

if you eventually replace the extractor with the select fire extractor, it will likely require a little fit on the leg that drops down into the hole in the receiver (the part that remained in your bolt, not the part you photographed) Make sure it drops easily into the bolt and the spring and plunger easily come over the top of it once installed. Mine was broken (identical to yours except broken in shipping) and I had to touch the back of the "leg" with a dremel and round the edges of the leg to give it smooth movement like the factory extractor in other bolts. !0 seconds of work might save you the next broken extractor. Best Luck and keep us posted, we're all learning from each other at the moment I think!
I stole the extractor out of a spare Ruger bolt assembly that I had, but I will probably put a VQ extractor in it eventually.

Thanks for the advice, it may still prove valuable.
 
#29 ·
I decided to tear into mine when I got home from work, and sure enough there were gouges in my magazine. So I took it apart and started comparing my bolt w/a factory Ruger bolt, there is a big difference in quality. The Ruger bolt had a better finish on all of the edges, and everything is polished. I had done some polishing on the bullet recess of the Select Fire bolt, but it's actually still too tight. The bullet will wedge itself in there and leave burrs on the brass still. Here are a few pics of the underside of the two bolts.







I will try to have these sorted out tmrw...maybe

Were getting there...inch by m-f'n inch
 
#32 ·
This is my theory on the cartridge on the right:

Stukpedal sent a picture showing that the head of the brass would fit so tight that the someone holds the cartridge, the bolt will stay attached to the brass because of the tight fit.

So, I think that the bolt pulled the cartridge out of the chamber while the bullet was still in the barrel. At that moment, the entire assembly was still pressurized. Once the brass was out of the chamber, it burst due to lack of support.

Look at the picture of the cartridge on the right. That makes sense to me.

Stukpedal, upload the picture of the brass holding the bolt.
 
#34 · (Edited)
I think the picture displayed with the extractor holding the cartrige is as it should be, this is necessary for normal extraction. Really the picture shows a good thing. We want the casing held to the bolt for positive extraction. The only time this would be a problem is if it was so tightly wedged that, after firing, when the rear of the case strikes the ejector (the little flippy thing in the trigger group) that the the side of the casing opposite the extractor could not free itself for ejection. That would more than likely be a symptom of a very tight and excessively deep bolt face instead of an extractor problem. Regardless, absent any other problems, all of that would happen after the bullet left the barrel anyhow. By itself, everything looks right to me in his pic showing the bolt being held by the extractor since it's pretty much sitting level as it should. I just cheked my Razor bolt and it will do the same until I tilt to the non extractor side where gravity pulls it free. Just checked the same on my 22LR 10/22 (which has been problem free since I've had it) and it functions identidcal.

Two clues from the picture and a third and fourth from other posts make me think it detonated out of battery and likely before it even chambered.

#1 (the least compelling by itself) love it or hate it, 17 HMR is a fairly dirty round. Even in a clean gun it dirties up around the mouth of the case when it fires. His looks clean which makes me think it never generated enough pressure to do much of a complete burn or blow back across the brass. I'd even guess that much unburned powder either dropped into the magazine or blew out the ejection port if it happened to be open at the time of detonation. In the picture it looks like there was a partial burn near the back of the case but the front end it pretty tidy.

#2 The nicks visible on the rims at least 2 of the casings and I think even the third are consistent with what we've been seeing in the sharp edge of the bolt striking the front of the magazine. That same sharp edge is moving across all chambered rounds as well, being rimfire, it stands to reason that eventually it's quite likely that if this continues a round will eventually detonate when struck by that edge

#3 He said in an earlier post he was able to observe a nick in the front of the magazine from the bolt , further confirming #2

#4 He said in an earlier post that the bullet dropped from the chamber after the shot, suggesting to me that the casing was actually completely unsupported at the time of firing. Even if the pressure spike had just started, the bullet would be wedged well into the rifling and likely quite a ways down the barrel if the casing had been supported by a chamber, I doubt it would have just dropped free.

Just my thoughts, I guess an easy way to rule out premature ejection (why does this suddenly sound like I'm diagnosing a bad porn?) would be to look at the case that blew out, is there a primer strike or no? If so we know it at least made it most of the way into battery, otherwise the bolt would have been too far back for the hammer to hit the firing pin and cause the mark... and probably indicates a bad bad bad timing problem with ejection. If there is no primer strike and only the visible nick in the rim of the case then the nick is probably what set it off and likely long before it was chambered.
 
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