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  #16  
Old 12-09-2020, 07:44 AM
Ken_N

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Looks like they still have these in their 2020 catalog, page 83


https://ahg.anschuetz-sport.com/date...og_EN_2020.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penage Guy View Post
Anschutz, through its sister company AHG, had the F27A action models. These may no longer be available, or if they are they may not be readily available.

These include the F27A BR 50 benchrest rifle, the F27A Challenger, and the F27A AS300.



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  #17  
Old 12-09-2020, 11:54 AM
Rick H.
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Does anyone have an idea of the price on the Fortner BR-50 rifle? I looked but couldn't come up with anything. Just curious about this rifle.

Rick H.
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  #18  
Old 12-09-2020, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elh0102 View Post
If you review the results of top bench rest competitions, you will find no Fortner action rifles. They are designed for fast action, with acceptable accuracy, but not top shelf precision accuracy.
Agree with the lack of Fortners in top BR comps. Same could be said for Anschutz or any factory action for that matter.

F27A 100 yd sighting in target. Good lot of CX.
9828B8F0-9671-4A65-8425-1A8E87B67850_1607531981857.jpg
Two five shot and one 3 shot group under .5 moa at 100 yds. Shot with a two piece off a picnic table.

Target from the 50 @ 100yd challenge. Lot of Eley Match that was disappointing in the 1411.
520E5473-1E4D-418C-8CEF-D5830C3F5E9E_1607532410295.jpg
The two shots at 6 o’clock sounded weak and indeed printed low.

Five shots at 50yds. That good lot of CX.
8E03A58E-C31B-48C1-A4B6-DECEA6DE1DB1_1607533321380.jpg

Compared to the 1411, yet to find a disadvantage with the F27A.
A7241DEF-E479-4448-8ADE-E7D6084C60B1_1607534192369.jpg
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  #19  
Old 12-09-2020, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick H. View Post
Does anyone have an idea of the price on the Fortner BR-50 rifle? I looked but couldn't come up with anything. Just curious about this rifle.

Rick H.
Not sure of current pricing. Best bet is to talk with Nordic Marksman or ANA.
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  #20  
Old 12-09-2020, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elh0102 View Post
If you review the results of top bench rest competitions, you will find no Fortner action rifles. They are designed for fast action, with acceptable accuracy, but not top shelf precision accuracy. On average, the rifle to which you refer will shoot no better than your 1710 HB. But, the specific barrel is critical, and could easily offset any inherent disadvantage in the Fortner locking system. That said, if you need to get off 5 quick shots in freezing weather with numb fingers, while trying to calm your breathing from cross country skiing, then the Fortner is for you, that is its design.
I'll go along with that. Some actions have accuracy advantage or top competitors wouldn't be spending all those big bucks on Turbo and other actions.
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  #21  
Old 12-09-2020, 04:12 PM
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Philosophical questions . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by elh0102 View Post
If you review the results of top bench rest competitions, you will find no Fortner action rifles. . . .
If you review the results of various top off-hand competitions (ie not benchrested), will you find benchrest actions?

Although a gun as a whole can certainly be described as 'accurate', or not,
it strikes me that the only part of a gun that can be referred to as accurate
would be the barrel.

Does it make sense to describe triggers as 'accurate'?

Does it make sense to describe stocks as 'accurate'?

Does it make sense to describe sights/scopes as 'accurate'? (Well, maybe . . . )


Land Speed record cars are fast in a highly specialized environment ---

Top fuel dragsters are fast in short bursts ---

Formula 1 cars are fast in a variety of environments ---

So, which motor is 'faster'?


Depends on the rest of the car and the course, no?

Last edited by NVaVettes; 12-09-2020 at 06:11 PM.
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  #22  
Old 12-13-2020, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim slater View Post
I've seen a couple of F27 Fortner 3P/Prone rifles in action. No idea what the chamber is, but the bolt works smoothly. As for accuracy, the women's Silver and Bronze medallists at the Rio Olympics clearly thought it was up to par.

I agree about the lack of cramming in the bolt.
Silver and Bronze thought it was up to PAR? Would you not rather shoot birdie or eagle? But the real question is what made gold, and was that the difference? Could the rifle action make the difference.

The action does make concentration easier, but...
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  #23  
Old 12-13-2020, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelPig View Post
Silver and Bronze thought it was up to PAR? Would you not rather shoot birdie or eagle? But the real question is what made gold, and was that the difference? Could the rifle action make the difference.

The action does make concentration easier, but...
Barbara Lechner won with a Feinwerkbau 2700, in largely stock form. However,in qualification she was a point behind, Du Li, the Bronze medalist. And in the final, Lechner took the gold by just 0.2 over Yang; that's not 2 points, but 0.2.

My point was that the rifle, or at least these rifles, are accurate enough for top flight 3-P competition.
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  #24  
Old 12-13-2020, 06:39 PM
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Barrel and ammo. The Fortner is no liability when it comes to factory actions.

Handling the 1411 and F27A with the same barrel length. The F27A feels much lighter. Maybe why the women 3 position shooters preferred it?

Targets don’t lie. Fortners can shoot.
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  #25  
Old 12-13-2020, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cattleman30 View Post
Barrel and ammo. The Fortner is no liability when it comes to factory actions.

Handling the 1411 and F27A with the same barrel length. The F27A feels much lighter. Maybe why the women 3 position shooters preferred it?

Targets donít lie. Fortners can shoot.
yup find what it likes and go for it!

Lee
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  #26  
Old 12-13-2020, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVaVettes View Post
If you review the results of various top off-hand competitions (ie not benchrested), will you find benchrest actions?

Although a gun as a whole can certainly be described as 'accurate', or not,
it strikes me that the only part of a gun that can be referred to as accurate
would be the barrel.

Does it make sense to describe triggers as 'accurate'?

Does it make sense to describe stocks as 'accurate'?

Does it make sense to describe sights/scopes as 'accurate'? (Well, maybe . . . )


Land Speed record cars are fast in a highly specialized environment ---

Top fuel dragsters are fast in short bursts ---

Formula 1 cars are fast in a variety of environments ---

So, which motor is 'faster'?


Depends on the rest of the car and the course, no?
I believe the OP's question was regarding the inherent accuracy of the action, regardless of the specific discipline to which it might be applied. To build on your example of the F1 engine. At 15,000 rpms and about 1,000 hp, I don't think there is any doubt that it is more powerful than your production Honda Camry V6. Would it be a practical alternative to the Camry's production motor, no. But it's still much more powerful.

The action is only one part of the complete rifle. Its contribution to accuracy is, IMO, much less than that of the barrel. But that wasn't the question. The best action for a given purpose is not necessarily the one that, in a controlled environment is the most accurate. As you said, you won't find robust benchrest actions on position rifles.The contribution of such actions to accuracy is beyond the best position shooters' ability to utilize. It is an academic question, and its answer has little value in application.
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