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.22 Mag accuracy(sigh)

48K views 229 replies 88 participants last post by  NDAR15MAN 
#1 ·
Been a follower for.. 5 years maybe? I think this may be my 2nd post. *insert beating dead horse sentiment*
I am on the cusp of ordering a Volquartsen in .22 WMR. I have long been interested in the .22 mag, for the purpose of primarily extended range tree squirrel and/or anything else (100 yd in). I have searched and read these posts about guns and ammo accuracy until my eyes crossed, but I need to do it for peace of mind.I want to hear (or see!) what kind of accuracy to expect. My current expectations are MOA to 99 yards(more likely 75-80). So, anyone want to talk me out of it?

Caveat: I didn't post this in the volquartsen section because as I understand it, the ammo is the limiting factor, especially with a gun with the rep of a volquartsen.
 
#2 ·
I am a big 22 mag fan and I have been for years, along with many others. There are a group of haters of this caliber also and they are constantly bashing it. If you get a good rifle and ammo it likes a 1.5" group at 99 yards is the normal accuracy, and I find it no more or no less accurate than 22lr. This is just my experience over the past several years shooting this round, and I don't shoot holes in paper and constantly measure the results. My shooting starts at 100 yards and beyond at more interesting objects, to me that's fun and challenging.
 
#3 ·
As I have said before I have a RAR that shoots under 1 moa at 100 yards. The trouble is it also shoots over 1.5 moa at 100 yards. If you are a guy like me and have the 22 mag for the intended design which is hunting then you aren't going to shoot a truckload of ammo so this is what I do. I buy my ammo from a LGS. I buy a box and take it to the range and test it. If my rifle likes I go back and buy several boxes of that lot. I have given up buying 22 mag and 17 wsm ammo online. If I get a batch of 22 mag ammo that my rifle hates I can shoot it in the SS Hunter but the 17 WSM is a do or die.
 
#4 · (Edited)
They can be accurate (caveat - I know noting about Volquartsen).
I had (sigh) a custom Ruger No.1 single shot in 22 Mag with a Shilen barrel and match chamber (take note here). I also once read an article where someone had a Bulberry? custom 22 Mag barrel made for a Contender carbine that also shot amazingly.
Anyway, here are some pictures of my rifle and what it could do at 100 yds.
 
#83 ·
I know all about that sigh!:( I done the same thing with a original Thompson 22 K hornet with a wilson barrel..

Just matched up my 455! I re-contoured the barrel for a more manageable weight for hunting. It went from .860 @ muzzle down to .720. I added a nice contour to original dimensions @ shoulder. I also cut the shoulder back .030 to reduce free bore. I than faced the chamber off & reduced headspace considerably..
Also re-cut the extractor grooves. Because of the barrel taper, I took about 1-1/2" off the stocks forend & re-contoured it for eye appeal. Than rebedded the action. Haven't had time (or a decent scope) to really test it out yet! Did get near single whole acurracy @ 40yrds with a 2-7x scope. But I've got a new scope on the way that should help ring it out for what its worth.

Good shooting
 
#5 ·
I think I might be ok with 1.5 being at the high end, and sub at the low end. This will def be a hunting gun (all of mine are). I dont even know if I've seen a squirrel at 100 yards while hunting.. I imagine with the style and tactics I plan to employ, 80 yards will be the limit, given style, woods terrain and all other variables. I romanticize the idea of supreme accuracy at longer distances (as we all do) and would love to have a sub moa .22 wmr that shot poa from 0-100 yds... but, I'm also not a total newb.. I love the design and features of the volquartsens(dont own a .22 rf s/a), so .75-.95, or, around nickel-quarter sized at 80-90 yards would seal the deal for me. That's all the practical performance I would realistically desire.
 
#7 ·
Accuracy isnt the "goal", or I would agree with you. I have 452 american that's shoots well enough for a target's cns at 50 yards. I guess I'm the type to not have many of the same "types" for different purposes.. like I said, I dont have a semi .22, and want one. I also want a long-er range squirrel rifle. Was hoping to check both of those boxes with the Volquartsen.
 
#126 ·
I think I've spent more hours trying to get a .22WMR to shoot than I care to admit. From Anschutz's to Marlin 783-883-983, Remington's to Rugers. All have been an exercise in frustration. Extreme frustration.

So I've given up. I have a Ruger American and a Remington 597. Both are mediocre at best. All of them have been mediocre at best.
x2, the 22mag became a 40yd rabid **** dispatcher for me. Then I mail ordered a 22LR stainless Marlin. It somehow turned into a 22WMR in transit, apparently the seller never checked the barrel stamp. Gave it a try at 40 yards, shocked when it stacked the overlapping holes with the first CCI tested. Previous rifles with a variety of ammo would do 1" 2-shot groups at that distance.

Keep trying, eventually you'll find one that shoots properly.
 
#10 ·
That sounds horrible. I hate the idea of not knowing what you'll get when buying a gun.. that's the whole idea behind buying an Anschutz, cooper, volquartsen etc.. I'll shell out 2k for a gun's fit, finish, and guaranteed accuracy, that will last a lifetime.

Which begs the question: How do they even sell $2k rifles that cant shoot, or $1k rifles for that matter? This is the dead horse I was referring to. Someone comes in saying they can shoot dimes "all day long" with their wmr, while another will say they are worthless. I saw a review on the tube with 4 different Ammos at 50, none of them were THAT bad. He picked the best 2 and moved to 100. One was sub MOA the other barely over. It was only a couple 5 shot groups but the rifle probably wasn't even broken in yet. So what gives?
 
#11 ·
Bad experiences are louder than good. As far as 22wmr, I've had good and bad but the same can be said about all 22lr, I repeat, the same can be said about 22lr. Thee biggest factor here is that you have a huge pile of 22lr ammo to try, a good percentage being "target", while all of the 22wmr ammo, which is very few choices, are made with hunting in mind. Hunting ammo is traditionaly not required to be moa but more like 2-3 moa. Most here at RFC would call a 2-3 moa gun a tomato stick.

This likely didn't help you decide but my advice is to get one, try all the ammo you can, stay with the best one and just be happy how they hit critters harder. It likely will shoot really good too.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Hmmmm? Do I qualify as a hater, or as someone who requires more than a few random acts of accuracy
to illustrate the actual capabilities of the 22wmr ammunition?
I use the 22wmr as it is intended, a short range hunting/varminting cartridge.
I don't expect it to be able to produce consistently uniform trajectories.
Easy enough to prove it for y'erself. Grab a couple boxes of cartridges,
use a one dot one shot target and see what happens. Take the time,
spend the 20 bucks, and determine just what happens when you attempt to hit what you aim at.
Post the results so that others can compare for themselves what different rifles and cartridges are capable of.

5 shots are a random act of accuracy.
10 shots are a wallet group.
30 shots are a good start.
50 shots is the minimum needed to begin to draw useful conclusions.
100 shots gives me confidence in my conclusions.
 
#13 ·
Full disclosure:


I recently picked up a Mossberg 640KD Chuckster at a local gun shop. My past experience with these has been good. However . . . .. .. .



The first range trip with the "new" 640KD and a Weaver V12 and four different types of ammo I had on hand proved less than encouraging.


I only shot at 50 yds and the best I could do in the chilly weather with the scope at 4X, was 1 1/4" for 5 shots.


It needs a lot more range time with different loads and/or maybe a different scope.
 
#68 ·
Full disclosure:

I recently picked up a Mossberg 640KD Chuckster at a local gun shop. My past experience with these has been good. However . . . .. .. .

The first range trip with the "new" 640KD and a Weaver V12 and four different types of ammo I had on hand proved less than encouraging.

I only shot at 50 yds and the best I could do in the chilly weather with the scope at 4X, was 1 1/4" for 5 shots.

It needs a lot more range time with different loads and/or maybe a different scope.
Try the WIn 40 gr, my 640s love it MOA easy even with their crappy trigger ~~JMJ~~
 
#14 · (Edited)
Buckeye, I've annoyed the fanboyz for over a year.
I keep being shown 5 and 10 shot examples of how accurate the 22wmr is.
I keep asking the same question: What happened with the other 40 to 45 shots?
Why aren't those being shown also? Are they not quite as good? If so, how bad are they?
Funny, I get a lot of excuses about why they don't need to show the rest of the results.
Makes me wonder why? :rolleyes:

It's not the rifles that are the problem.
It's expecting bulk hunting cartridges to be capable of precision results.
The ammo quality just ain't there, just not consistent enough.

I've run every brand of 22wmr across a chronograph, 50 shots at a time.
ES ranged from 80 fps to over 300 fps.
Results on target show none are capable of consistent moa.
It's not the rifles, it's the method of manufacture and lack of quality control on the ammo assembly line.
 
#16 ·
Entertained and illuminated...

... I've annoyed the fanboyz for over a year.
I'm a closet fanboy, but a pragmatic one. I've had some groups that I oughta show you, but ... I know you're right, jaia. They're anomalies, and I try to keep your words and the "zero" idea in mind when I shoot paper. Then, I just enjoy the moment and smile knowing that I'm in the neighborhood, and once in a while, right on target, whatever it is...

I still appreciate the effort you've put into your research and posting the results (and I read 'em all).

'tool
 
#15 ·
Well, that was my point. Who is going to pay $2,000 for a Volquartsen or (more) Cooper that (the ammo)isnt accurate enough to small game hunt w/o blowing them up?.. Most people wouldn't even choose a rimfire over center fire if the law didn't force them to(I probably wouldnt). So if I cant head shoot a squirrel or rabbit at 80-100 yards with a .22 mag, or .17 HMR, or. 17HM2 consistently, why would anyone buy one? If I'm predator hunting NONE of those is going to be my first choice, for obvious reasons I'm going straight to center fire. And the whole "In case I run into something bigger while squirrel hunting" is just silly to me if the weapon you have isnt first and foremost an adequate squirrel gun..

Like I said, I've done enough reading to not expect match accuracy from the mag, but even a lot of quality(not match) lr ammo will shoot mostly moa in a good gun. Think of all the sk, rws, cci etc. hv stuff. I dont hear anyone say that those rounds are useless in lr like I do about the wmr.. and they are very similar bullets and velocity.
 
#21 ·
Like I said, I've done enough reading to not expect match accuracy from the mag, but even a lot of quality(not match) lr ammo will shoot mostly moa in a good gun. Think of all the sk, rws, cci etc. hv stuff. I dont hear anyone say that those rounds are useless in lr like I do about the wmr.. and they are very similar bullets and velocity.
Let me clarify...

I've gotten some REALLY good groups with my WMR rifles. I've just never gotten anything contestant. Heck my Marlin 60 will put 15 rounds into a 3/8 hole at 25 yards with boring regularity. When I use the chrono (I keep 6 different types of WMR ammo for testing) I get spreads of 100-140fps it's just not consistent. I use it for 50 yards MAX and am happy there.
 
#17 ·
I have an RAR 22 mag that I had just about given up on. I have had good luck with Winchester in other guns but this one wont extract Winchester. I tried several other brands Fiochi, Armscor etc with mediocre accuracy. I tried some Remington 40 grain and got 4" at 50 yards. Same session no changes tried CCI 40 grain HP and got under and inch at 50 yards. Went to 100 yards and right at an inch for the 9 round mag. I am puzzled as to why Rem would go 4" @ 50 and CCI 1"@ 100. I have not tried Aguila. Right now the rifle is at Ruger for the failure to extract Winchester. Not the only one I have seen that wont. Same day same gun another guy having the same problem. I will test the rifle again when I get it back but I need one that will shoot any ammo decently. I may end up dumping it. My H&R single shot will shoot under 1.5" @ 100 with most any ammo but really shines with Winchester.
 
#87 ·
I am puzzled as to why Rem would go 4" @ 50 and CCI 1"@ 100.

My H&R single shot will shoot under 1.5" @ 100 with most any ammo but really shines with Winchester.
My .22WMRs have shown inconsistency based on ammo as well. I've had three Marlin/H&R over the years and still own two of them. CCI was the worst out of all of them! Winchester Supremes and Dynapoints are the best! Just check them over a chrony and you'll see a big part of the issue, extreme ES.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Buckeye, as long as ya' use the 22wmr for center of critter, out to 75 yards y'er good.
I wouldn't use any rimfire cartridge offhand at anything more than 100 feet, max.
The 22mag is for those critters that cause problems around the chicken coop.
Fox, raccoon, coyote, bobcat, feral strays all have enough ribcage to deflect a 22lr.
22wmr has the mass and velocity to punch the ribs and finish them.
Use it for critter thumping and y'er good.
Expecting precision results when paper punching, the 22wmr will disappoint you.

Airtool, post those groups.
Nothing wrong with showing what happens when you get a run of decent cartridges.
Just don't claim "all day long" ;)
 
#19 ·
Well, if "center of critter" is 3-4 inches at 75 yards(raccoons ribcage), that's not acceptable for my uses. Especially from a $2,000 rifle. I'm purposely digressing here, but if you're telling me essentially the only purpose of a .22 mag is to shoot raccoons at your chicken coop, then I am questioning this entire sub forum on rfc...
 
#219 ·
Well, if "center of critter" is 3-4 inches at 75 yards(raccoons ribcage), that's not acceptable for my uses. Especially from a $2,000 rifle. I'm purposely digressing here, but if you're telling me essentially the only purpose of a .22 mag is to shoot raccoons at your chicken coop, then I am questioning this entire sub forum on rfc...
I'll second everything that Jaia has said. I use 22Mag for the critter culling he mentions. If you want the type of accuracy you say, just buy yourself a high quality .223 rifle and you can achieve it. .22 rimfire ammo has its limitations.
 
#20 · (Edited)
How many folks use the 22wmr for hunting or varminting?
How many are capable of moa results shooting offhand?
Not me. My results offhand are dismal. :(
I have to brace on a tree or fence or shooting stick to make an effective shot.
The 22wmr is more than adequate for that purpose.
But the cartridges I've tested/documented were never intended for precision target work.

The 22wmr forum is for folks to discuss the cartridge,
ask questions and post their bragging pics.
Just like any other subject of interest. ;)
 
#22 ·
For my 2 cents =
I get bored quickly with a rimfire cartridge or gun that isn't accurate enough off the bench to test my skill and shoot less than 1/2" at 50 yards on a calm day. I'm not happy unless I get cloverleaf groups, truth be told.

That said, the 22 Mag rarely bores me. I wouldn't own as many 22 magnums as I do if I didn't think the cartridge was capable. True, not all rifles will shoot that well but many do. True, not all ammo will shoot tiny groups either. You also have to match the ammo to them just like the Long Rifle, but that's the fun part for me. I have a Kimber 82 and a Remington 40X that will put Hornady or CCI Vmax 22 magnums into nice, tight little groups most days. I've posted targets here in the past to show what they can do.

My friends and myself are always on the lookout for quality 22 magnums, because they shoot well and are fun to shoot at the range when I feel like shooting a rimfire with a little more "oomph".
 
#23 ·
Well, I wasnt talking about anyone's off-hand ability. Mine personally is probly more like 25-30 yards offhand, but that doesnt speak to my ability to successfully use my weapon to take small game, I just sit or brace on a tree. My point was why spend the money to build, or continue to use a mag that gives you way less accuracy than a lr, with minimal(almost negligible when talking practical field performance and not just numbers) increases in velocity/energy? Round and round we go but is it worth it over just getting some velocitors, stingers or super extras?
By questioning the sub forum, I meant it more like talking to that one friend who keeps going back to the girl who's no good for him... from the sounds of it you could at least partially agree to that I think.
 
#24 ·
So I ran a ballistics calculator and it showed .42 inch difference in bullet drop between same bullet(cci jsp) with 125fps difference in mv(all w/a 50 yr zero). That doesnt seem like a deal breaker to me (?), is there any other reason you keep it to 50? Or maybe something I'm not thinking about?
 
#26 ·
I have a 452 American that has produced sub MOA groups. Not every group, but usually once or twice every range session with poly tip ammo. Particularly Rem 33 gr Premiers. 40 grain averages 1.5” or so, but generally what I use as this is a varmint-hunting rifle. Don’t buy a 22 mag for paper punching.
 
#27 ·
As I initially stated, I'm looking to extend my tree squirrel/rabbit hunting range. As also stated, I never expected match ammo results. The reason this conversation is getting weird is because I can get 2-3 MOA at 100 with *any* 22lr ammo out of a $500 rifle, so I guess I assumed(wrongly) that with a top tier semi-custom hunting rifle and even equal ammo quality I could improve on that accuracy with a wmr.
What I also find weird is that no one is coming to the mags rescue. Go to the cz section and tell someone your 452 groups like a shotgun and the conversation would go a very different direction...js
 
#58 · (Edited)
People aren't jumping to the defense because most, like myself if honest know that they can get a 3/4" group at 100yds...followed minutes later with a group that is 1.5".
I've been shooting a heavy barrel Savage WMR for ten years now and that is exactly how the average shooting session goes. On the same day I can take take my heavy barrel Ithica .222 and produce sub .5" groups all afternoon long...so I know it isn't me.
Still, the Savage is one of my favorite guns to take to the range because shooting 8" steel plates at 150-200 yds is real fun when you hear the 'ping'.
But when I want consistent tiny groups it's not the gun I go to.
And the difference between here and the CZ forum (or any manufacturer forum) is it is going to mostly be frequented by fanboys of the brand who won't admit any shortcomings.
 
#28 ·
If you all are saying that .75-.90(inside a quarter/roughly squirrel brain size) at 75-80 yards is "paper punching" or the results of "target ammo", then i think I've found my answer.. I'm sorry but that seems like an extremely reasonable request from ANY gun/ammo combination.
 
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