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  #16  
Old 12-30-2019, 05:00 PM
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We do about $5k a month with UPS small package. 99.9% of the time they do a good/great job. As they should for the rates they charge.

.1% of the time they do a horrible job but that's just a cost of doing business. We rarely insure unless it's on the customer's dime. Cost greatly outweighs benefit for volume shippers. Easier and cheaper to just make it right with the customer and move on.

They definitely self insure on the majority of domestic small package shipments. Claims are made directly to them, payments come directly from them.

Our claim rate is so small as to make it statistically worthless (2 or 3 a year) but in my experience the only claims I can count on being paid are the mysterious disappearances. Everything else is denied as improper packaging.

YMMV

Frank
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  #17  
Old 12-30-2019, 07:21 PM
rprokop63
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Originally Posted by chetc View Post
maybe someone can shed some light what to expect..

my buddy purchased a used Anshutz 1416 from a seller, it was insured for $1000.00 it arrived at the FFL dealer from UPS, stock was it 2 pcs, he took pics and the FFL dealer took pic too, filled out a claim along with pics sent to UPS, the gun is still at the FFL dealer awaiting to hear from UPS. so this is where he stands now, has anyone ever went thru something like this, and what can he expect and how soon. hope he does not get boned. any comments

chet
Well, your buddy and I are both in the same boat. Different model Annie but two piece stock now and still at the FFL who received it. I am really hoping UPS honors the insurance for the shipper. I know he is on top of them for the claim. Lots of expensive firewood this season from the sounds of it. I am guessing the seasonal help at UPS could care less about what's in the box marked fragile or they see those words as a challenge. Best of luck to your friend. Post the UPS outcome if you don't mind and I'll do the same. (Hopefully a positive one)
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  #18  
Old 01-17-2020, 08:01 AM
rprokop63
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Originally Posted by chetc View Post
maybe someone can shed some light what to expect..

my buddy purchased a used Anshutz 1416 from a seller, it was insured for $1000.00 it arrived at the FFL dealer from UPS, stock was it 2 pcs, he took pics and the FFL dealer took pic too, filled out a claim along with pics sent to UPS, the gun is still at the FFL dealer awaiting to hear from UPS. so this is where he stands now, has anyone ever went thru something like this, and what can he expect and how soon. hope he does not get boned. any comments

chet
As mentioned in the post above I ended up in the same situation. So far UPS has denied the claim as "insufficient packaging". Anyone here have any suggestions on how to possibly push UPS for a claim? Did your friend resolve their issue and if so how did they do it?

Also, just as a sanity check, if any of you were in my position, would you expect the seller to make right on the stock if it could have clearly been better packed?

Right now my seller has gone quiet for 4 days once I raised this as a possibility. I am not saying they are not going to reply as often times things happen in life. I am concerned that they are first off, not in the hospital, and secondly as a concern for the claim.
Any sage advice other that buy in person so you don't have to ship things?
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  #19  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by rprokop63 View Post
As mentioned in the post above I ended up in the same situation. So far UPS has denied the claim as "insufficient packaging". Anyone here have any suggestions on how to possibly push UPS for a claim? Did your friend resolve their issue and if so how did they do it?

Also, just as a sanity check, if any of you were in my position, would you expect the seller to make right on the stock if it could have clearly been better packed?

Right now my seller has gone quiet for 4 days once I raised this as a possibility. I am not saying they are not going to reply as often times things happen in life. I am concerned that they are first off, not in the hospital, and secondly as a concern for the claim.
Any sage advice other that buy in person so you don't have to ship things?
I would not expect that the seller would make it right. Most private sellers are done with the gun and the transaction the second it leaves their hands and/or use the money. . I also expect that UPS will persist in their thinking. (For my own non gun related business, they were very difficult.Brand new items in factory packing, which had survived a trip from Japan and through the dealer network, were deemed inadequately packed, when it was obvious that they had dropped the box during an intrastate delivery.I threatened them with small claims court-they paid the amount of my sale,which was less than the full rounded off insurance amount, and then kept the items, which they would later auction them off) Frankly, I think you're the owner of a rifle in need of a stock.

Sage advice? Only so many ways to buy a gun. LGS, online, ftf, or car ride. Order new or purchase used/new guns from your LGS. It may cost more, but also comes with benefits. Buying distant used guns comes with multiple risks.
When buying used bolt action rifles on the net, insist that the seller removes the bolt from the gun and everything is mummy wrapped with bubble wrap, and placed in a new cheap hard case. Be prepared to pay him for those supplies and perhaps some time. Weigh those expenses against buying from your LGS.

Last edited by Camster; 01-17-2020 at 10:12 AM.
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:08 AM
rprokop63
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Thanks for the reply Camster. Your points are valid. Whenever possible I buy local, but it's not as easy to find an Anschutz as a 10/22 here so I bought off the forum.
I do personally feel a seller is responsible to do their part to ship an item properly. (I've been dealing in musical instruments for years and I pack them so you could throw a box down a flight of stairs. Bubble, wrap, cases, double boxed etc.) In this case the rifle arrived single boxed wrapped in a plastic bag not even bubble wrap. zI am not sure what they expected would happen to it or maybe they really didn't care. I suppose it depends on the integrity of the seller for them to actually want to package it properly for the trip. If I do it again I'll be much, much more specific on what it means to package it up and properly box it for a trip.
I'll look at it as my excuse for getting a really nice stock.
Anyone want to buy a slightly used Anschutz stock with a minor issue?
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  #21  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:41 AM
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I really hope I am not in the minority here with my thinking. But as a seller I have a responsibility to deliver the item to the buyer. I package it as I deem necessary and depending on the value, fragility etc, I insure the item. Knowing that if I do not insure, I assume the risk of the being out that cash if lost, stolen, broke etc. This is a known risk of selling online and shipping.
You as the buyer are responsible for delivery the payment, which you obviously did.

Let's say you foolishly sent the seller $1000 cash and the envelope arrived torn with only $100 in it, would you expect the seller to still ship you the rifle? I wouldn't. Why should he be out $900 because of your poor judgment.

So why should you be out money due to his poor judgment in adequate packaging?

Last edited by J*CF; 01-17-2020 at 12:33 PM.
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  #22  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rprokop63 View Post
Thanks for the reply Camster. Your points are valid. Whenever possible I buy local, but it's not as easy to find an Anschutz as a 10/22 here so I bought off the forum.
I do personally feel a seller is responsible to do their part to ship an item properly. (I've been dealing in musical instruments for years and I pack them so you could throw a box down a flight of stairs. Bubble, wrap, cases, double boxed etc.) In this case the rifle arrived single boxed wrapped in a plastic bag not even bubble wrap. zI am not sure what they expected would happen to it or maybe they really didn't care. I suppose it depends on the integrity of the seller for them to actually want to package it properly for the trip. If I do it again I'll be much, much more specific on what it means to package it up and properly box it for a trip.
I'll look at it as my excuse for getting a really nice stock.
Anyone want to buy a slightly used Anschutz stock with a minor issue?
I hope that I wasn't too blunt.
I've heard that tale before about guns being placed loose in a box. Just careless. (Yes, there is a thing called reasonable care-you're not buying a rake)...and you can't expect such a person to have integrity about accepting responsibility. There is work involved for sellers, and they have to accept the doing of it,if they want to sell a gun online rather than waiting for a local sale or taking a wholesale price from their LGS.
I've sold many dozens of mine online. Never a problem and I don't surcharge the buyer for doing it the right way. Whatever it costs me to do it right, is just part of the deal and cost of the hobby.
Even for well packed guns that get damaged, UPS might be difficult. No chance with an obviously poor packing job.

Last edited by Camster; 01-17-2020 at 05:14 PM.
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  #23  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:17 PM
rprokop63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J*CF View Post
I really hope I am not in the minority here with my thinking. But as a seller I have a responsibility to deliver the item to the seller. I package it as I deem necessary and depending on the value, fragility etc, I insure the item. Knowing that if I do not insure, I assume the risk of the being out that cash if lost, stolen, broke etc. This is a known risk of selling online and shipping.
You as the buyer are responsible for delivery the payment, which you obviously did.

Let's say you foolishly sent the seller $1000 cash and the envelope arrived torn with only $100 in it, would you expect the seller to still ship you the rifle? I wouldn't. Why should he be out $900 because of your poor judgment.

So why should you be out money due to his poor judgment in adequate packaging?
This is my hopeful thinking as well. In the seller's defense he may still come through. I don't want to give a guy a bad name if he is laid up in a hospital bed somewhere or has a family emergency. Being at a distance I can't possibly know these things so I try to put that in to be fair.
The packaging was not good but perhaps in his mind he thought it was good enough. It was a rifle box but with no bubble wrap or double boxing it was probably doomed. I suspect that with the box having an accordion style crush to it for 10 inches that even bubble wrap wouldn't have saved this one.
When I sold my air rifles off a few years back they were bubble wrapped then sealed in a gun case and double boxed. With packing between the boxes. That way I knew they would get there the way they left my house.
All this being said I think Camsters point above is that when dealing with unknown individuals at great distances there are risks. Being an optimist I'll hope for a positive outcome but I know that is a wish.
On the bright side I've just gotten a nice MDT chassis and am heading off to the range to play with that. Life could always be worse that suffering through a Florida winter.
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  #24  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:02 PM
Andyd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J*CF View Post
I really hope I am not in the minority here with my thinking. But as a seller I have a responsibility to deliver the item to the buyer. I package it as I deem necessary and depending on the value, fragility etc, I insure the item. Knowing that if I do not insure, I assume the risk of the being out that cash if lost, stolen, broke etc. This is a known risk of selling online and shipping.
You as the buyer are responsible for delivery the payment, which you obviously did.

Let's say you foolishly sent the seller $1000 cash and the envelope arrived torn with only $100 in it, would you expect the seller to still ship you the rifle? I wouldn't. Why should he be out $900 because of your poor judgment.

So why should you be out money due to his poor judgment in adequate packaging?
Your argumentation is not standing solidly on two feet.

First, the seller had the package insured but the UPS consumer insurance bailed out with their standard answer that they give regardless of how well an item was packed.

Second, the rifle was bought from a private party that may have sold their first rifle and was unaware of the dangers of breakage involved. Just a little bit of care from the buyers side, by asking about the packaging and making sure that the gun would be well packed, as Camster had indicated by having the bolt removed and making sure that the rifle cannot slide around and develop momentum. Another option is to have the seller buy the cheapest hardcase from Walmart and reimburse him.

Blame goes both ways and once the damage is done, it's a little late for the loss to be remedied but still time to learn for the future.
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