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Old 04-04-2019, 09:45 PM
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Cleaning and accuracy experiment



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Last edited by kisssofdeath; 07-24-2019 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 06:01 AM
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I would say more cleaning than necessary? It will be interesting to see how many shots it takes to shoot again. Thanks for shsreing the experiment.
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Old 04-05-2019, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by kisssofdeath View Post
After 2,520 rounds (yes, I am keeping count) I believe I am finally seeing a decrease in accuracy with my 1710 XLR. One thing I did not keep track of was how often I cleaned the barrel between shooting sessions. Also, sometimes I would run a boresnake through the barrel. Boresnake used was new and only used with this rifle. Up until now my cleaning regime with this rifle has been the following.

1. One Wet patch.
2. 20 strokes with a nylon brush.
3. Two wet patches.
4. One dry patch.
5. Inspect with borescope. Repeat if not satisfied.

Carbon ring is treated separate. I use JB and VFG felt pellets to remove the carbon ring. JB may touch the rifling but doesn't go in the bore.

I used to be able to shoot 10 for 10, 1/2" groups or less, mostly less all day every day. Here are the last four targets shot with four different ammo on two different days.



I didn't think to take borescope photos before cleaning but here is what it looks like now and the cleaning method I used. This is the first time this bore has seen a bronze brush or JB.

Method...

1. Run 2 wet patches with 50/50 kroil and shooters choice MC#7.
2. Use bronze brush, make 10 strokes.
3. Run 2 wet patches.
4. Run 1 Dry and inspect with borescope.
5. Use JB and VFG felt pellets to remove carbon ring.
6. Inspect for carbon ring.
7. Use JB and VFG felt pellets and clean bore 15 strokes.
8. Repeat step 7.
9. Run 2 wet patches.
10. Run 1 dry patch.
11. Inspect with borescope.
12. Remove excess JB from chamber entrance.
13. Run 1 wet patch.
14. Use bronze brush, make 15 strokes.
15. As many wet patches to get a clean one.
16. Run 2 dry patches.
17. Inspect with borescope.

Here are the results.



Looked almost as new after I was finished. Not a blemish anywhere.

First opportunity I get (hopefully tomorrow) I will shoot and record the very first shot after cleaning and record the group sequence to see how a cleaning like this will effect group size in the beginning and see if group size increases or decreases as the rifle is shot. I know there has been a lot of talk about seasoning the bore and such before good groups are attainable so I want to find out what happens with my 1710 XLR shooting 50 to 150 rounds of Center-X. What I have here is a basic production gun, not a full blown custom bench rest rig. So I am not considering a cleaning method for a custom gun. I don't run dry patches, I don't clean after 25-75 or whatever rounds, I push and pull my brush both ways, I use JB bore cleaner, I use a boresnake, I probably do several things a bench rest guy would never do and that's fine.

If anyone has a particular test request let me know and I will see what I can do. Hopefully this will prove to be somewhat educational. But you know, in the end what I am doing really only applies to this one rifle.
If a bronze brush and Kroil will not remove any build up then you have problems. I would not use any bore scrubbing paste.
I use a brush after every range session, and that brush gets replaced after about 6-8 cleaning sessions or when it feels too loose.

Lee
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:20 PM
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I'll be very interested in your first shot cold bore accuracy after such a through cleaning and then how many shots it takes for the rifle to start grouping again.
I know my 64 MPR throws the first one to god knows where on that first shot, and takes 7 to 10 rounds to get settled down after cleaning. Like someone else mentioned, I do not use bore paste and never reverse a brush in the bore, but that's just me. I have read some information from several sources that state more .22 barrels are ruined by cleaning than anything else. I don't own a bore scope, so not really sure how well my barrels are cleaned. I only clean the barrel when I see the accuracy start to go away. I do clean the chamber with a .250 brush and CLP about every 100 to 200 rounds. Cleaning regiments and solvents are recommended by everyone. I use and clean the way I do because the rifle has consistently performed to my expectation the way I do it. Your results may vary.
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:32 PM
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lnteresting and l will follow your outcome keep us updated.
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:49 PM
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my cz 452 varmint was a cold bore flier thrower, but interestingly, after completely cleaning the ring out of the throat with hoppes/kroil and a 6mm shooters choice brush, the first 5 rounds of eley club at 50y from a cold clean bore were under 1/4" on a shoot and see.
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Old 04-05-2019, 07:13 PM
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Last edited by kisssofdeath; 07-24-2019 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 07:20 PM
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I'm wondering how much of that loss of accuracy is due to poorer quality ammo lots...
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:55 PM
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Sounds like a thorough cleaning. I’m curious why Lee says not to use bore paste. I’m a big fan of Kroil, it works great as well as being “The oil that Creeps”. I also occasionally use vfg paste with their felts. Combined with the kroil it sure cleans a rifle up nice.
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:19 PM
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Last edited by kisssofdeath; 07-24-2019 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:22 PM
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Last edited by kisssofdeath; 07-24-2019 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KREEPY View Post
Sounds like a thorough cleaning. I’m curious why Lee says not to use bore paste. I’m a big fan of Kroil, it works great as well as being “The oil that Creeps”. I also occasionally use vfg paste with their felts. Combined with the kroil it sure cleans a rifle up nice.
I can not get over the fact of running anything down my barrels that even has a hint of any abrasive in it. IMO if you clean on a regular basis using something with an abrasive in it would not be needed.

Lee
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:13 PM
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Last edited by kisssofdeath; 07-24-2019 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:21 PM
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Last edited by kisssofdeath; 07-24-2019 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 04-06-2019, 02:58 AM
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After all my years of shooting I honestly do not believe that cleaning with a bronze core copper bristle quality brush will harm a .22 LR barrel. A long time favorite 541-S Remington has an untold # of rounds through it, its still supremely accurate and hard to beat with rifles that cost 4Xs the money.

Like Kissofdeath's experience of shifting groups, unexplained, I experience this in all my rifles, I can't explain it, I have tried everything I can think of including pinching the trigger with no other contact with the rifle, I've shot off bipods for years but also have a fantastic front rest that weighs 30#, the stem that the adjustable top sets on is 2" stainless and the unit was built by a Benchrest friend of mine, I have developed a tremor in my right hand, if the reticle won't "settle" on the target I may as well carry my rifle back to the house, no amount of desire will make me shoot better or improve the groups, thank God, the tremor is not constant, I still have my days!

I mix Hoppe's benchrest with Kroil oil and Marvel mystery oil, lately 50% Hoppes, 25% each of the other two. Why? It works for me, I use good quality double knapped Flannel cotton patches, lots of them, I only buy 1000 packs because they don't offer 10,000 packs.

I clean the throat with a bronze core 6MM brush after every range session and keep lot #s that don't measure up to use for fouling shots. My 1710 usually needs no fouling shots but its an old habit and like habits, its hard to break.

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