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Old 07-03-2019, 07:37 AM
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DISTINGUISHED~ What is that?



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In Appleseed (AS), one can earn:

- Rifleman : 210 out of 250 on the AQT
- Known Distance Rifleman: 32 out of 40 hits out to 400 yards
- Distinguished Rifleman: 230(with iron sights) or 240 (with scope) out of 250 on the 25M AQT
- 250: Perfect 250 score on a 25M AQT

There are likely a few others I missed, some state specific awards as well.

But....

Distinguished? Where did that come from? The term DISTINGUISHED RIFLEMAN?

I believe AS borrowed some of that from the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

That is the REAL DISTINGUISHED Rifle (and pistol and a few others) badge!

Records dating back to the very early 1900's and I believe they have only awarded 3400(ish) badges to date.

That for many in the marksmanship world is the pinnacle achievement.

The NRA also has a DISTINGUISHED program now, it is fairly new and only a few years old. In the NRA making HIGH MASTER is almost akin to the CMP Distinguished Rifle badge.

How does one earn that CMP Distinguished badge?

Thru participation in CMP Excellence In Competition (EIC) matches. Full distance matches, that are shot very similarly to the AS course of fire. It is:

NO SIGHTING SHOTS

- 10 shots standing slow fire (10 minutes) at 200 yards
- 10 shots rapid fire seated (start from standing) in 60 seconds at 200 yards with a magazine change
- 10 shots rapid fire prone (start from standing) in 70 seconds at 300 yards with a magazine change
- 20 shots slow fire (20 minutes) at 600 yards

The above is the course of fire (COF) for a CMP EIC match where one can EARN leg points towards the distinguished badge.

It takes a total of 30 points to earn that badge, and one of the legs MUST be an 8 point or 10 point leg....referred to as the HARD leg.

A civilian can only compete in a maximum of 5 EIC matches a year.

The National match does not count towards the 5, and is ALWAYS A HARD 10 point leg for any civilian competitor that makes the cut.

The CUT, is determined by the TOP 10% of non distinguished competitors....for example....10 non distinguished competitors...equals 1 6 point leg.

Legs are broken down by:
Bronze: 6 point leg
Silver: 8 point leg
Gold: 10 point leg

In order to offer a Silver or Gold leg, there must be a minimum amount of non distinguished competitors. I believe it is 20 for a Silver.

Earn a HARD leg (gold or silver) and the rest can be Bronze legs, till you reach the required 30.

Then your name goes in the National Records with a number assigned next to your name. I believe we are up to 3400 ish now, dating back to like 1903 ish.

Appleseed got me started on my Distinguished Badge journey......I have earned 12 of the 30 leg points required. My goal is to get my hard leg at Nationals (Camp Perry) in a few weeks....then I will need 8 more. I only have 1 more (of the 5) EIC matches left this year after nationals...so that would need to be a Silver to "LEG OUT" this year.

It is a journey....you will learn a LOT.

Consider that.....if you have attained Distinguished with Appleseed.....now go for the REAL DEAL!

R/
Chris
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navybowhunter View Post
In Appleseed (AS), one can earn:

- Known Distance Rifleman: 32 out of 40 hits out to 400 yards
I have done 3 KD's in 3 different states and distinguished in KD has been a score of 46 of 50 with irons or 48 of 50 with optics. This is based on hitting the black (4's and 5's) equals a point (2x for 400 yards if only 10 shots are fired at that stage). Some KD's score every shot (include the 3 ring) and use the 230/240 distinguished system the same as a 25 meter event.
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:29 AM
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I am a CMP Distinguished Rifleman, Badge #1487 from the year 2001. Took me two years... got two 10-point Legs in 1999 (one was at Nationals) and then the next two years were spent chasing the rest of the points. Ended up with an 8-pointer and finally a 6-pointer.

Four years ago I shot a 239 with a bone-stock 10/22 with Tech Sights, sadly that was long before Appleseed came up with their Distinguished badge.

There is a saying in the Highpower community, that I suppose could apply equally to Appleseed: "After you go Distinguished, then you really learn how to shoot."
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwadley View Post
I have done 3 KD's in 3 different states and distinguished in KD has been a score of 46 of 50 with irons or 48 of 50 with optics. This is based on hitting the black (4's and 5's) equals a point (2x for 400 yards if only 10 shots are fired at that stage). Some KD's score every shot (include the 3 ring) and use the 230/240 distinguished system the same as a 25 meter event.
Point taken.

However it is scored in AS....my OP is about what Distinguished outside of AS really means

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Old 07-03-2019, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rwadley View Post
I have done 3 KD's in 3 different states and distinguished in KD has been a score of 46 of 50 with irons or 48 of 50 with optics. This is based on hitting the black (4's and 5's) equals a point (2x for 400 yards if only 10 shots are fired at that stage). Some KD's score every shot (include the 3 ring) and use the 230/240 distinguished system the same as a 25 meter event.

Yes, with the usual course of fire in KD Appleseed events, a "hits count" scoring method is used and a total of 40 shots are fired, 10 shots in each of four stages, with the last stage (prone slow fire) counting double. Alternatively, on the last stage 20 shots could be fired with the time limit for the stage doubled and each hit scoring a single point. Either way, perfect score is 50 out of a possible 50 points.

For the 25 meter events, a points count is usually used, with the last stage again counting double, for a total of 40 shots once again. Since the highest score per shot if 5 points, a perfect score is 5x50=250.

When shooting with optics, a "distinguished" score requires at least 96% of possible points, which is 240/250 for the usual 25 meter scoring, and 48/50 for the hits count scoring method.
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TT92 View Post
I am a CMP Distinguished Rifleman, Badge #1487 from the year 2001. Took me two years... got two 10-point Legs in 1999 (one was at Nationals) and then the next two years were spent chasing the rest of the points. Ended up with an 8-pointer and finally a 6-pointer.

Four years ago I shot a 239 with a bone-stock 10/22 with Tech Sights, sadly that was long before Appleseed came up with their Distinguished badge.

There is a saying in the Highpower community, that I suppose could apply equally to Appleseed: "After you go Distinguished, then you really learn how to shoot."

Congrats and tip of my cap to you TT92!

I know one of my friends earned his badge in 3 years, all his leg points were at the National Trophy Individual (NTI) match at Perry, and he also made the Presidents 100 every year as well! Amazing stuff!

For those still reading.....here it is straight from the CMP, and here is the link:
http://thecmp.org/competitions/distinguishedbadges/

It is a pretty big deal and HUGE accomplishment for anyone that has earned "THE Badge"!

Distinguished Badges are the highest individual awards authorized by the U. S. Government for excellence in marksmanship competition. They are awarded by the CMP in accordance with 36 USC 40722 [3] and by the respective services in accordance with service regulations. The CMP and the military commands responsible for the awarding of Distinguished Badges coordinate their respective badge regulations and the establishment of a master file of Distinguished Badge winners.

Distinguished Badge programs for military personnel are administered by the respective services in accordance with applicable service regulations. Badge programs for civilians are administered by the CMP. The CMP issues Distinguished Badges only to shooters who earn them according to CMP Competition Rules. All Distinguished Badges issued by the CMP are serial numbered and are, without exception, accounted for on an individual badge basis. The name of the recipient, the year the badge was earned and the badge serial number are engraved on the badge.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:47 PM
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I earned my high power distinguished medal # 778 in 1988 with an M1A and the program was managed by the department of civilian marksmanship. My first 6 points were earned at the Md state championship match in 85. A 10 pointer at Perry in 87, an 8 pointer at Quantico at the regional in 88, and a 10 pointer at Perry in 88. There is nothing quite like earning the medal. I would recommend the high power program for anyone who want to learn to excel. Lots of younger people are finding the program and it is a character builder.
My letter said I was the 778th civilian to earn the medal since the program was incepted in 1884.
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Old 07-04-2019, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mushka View Post
I earned my high power distinguished medal # 778 in 1988 with an M1A and the program was managed by the department of civilian marksmanship. My first 6 points were earned at the Md state championship match in 85. A 10 pointer at Perry in 87, an 8 pointer at Quantico at the regional in 88, and a 10 pointer at Perry in 88. There is nothing quite like earning the medal. I would recommend the high power program for anyone who want to learn to excel. Lots of younger people are finding the program and it is a character builder.
My letter said I was the 778th civilian to earn the medal since the program was incepted in 1884.
Outstanding Accomplishment Mushka!

I currently reside in Maryland, and shoot often at Quantico (in fact my picture in here is of me on Range 4 at Quantico's 1000 yard line).

Things have changed quite a bit regarding the service rifle. I did not elaborate on that in my original post, but....

For everyone else....you must compete with a "Service Rifle", and those rules are defined in the CMP rulebook.

Lots of Distinguished badges were earned with the M1 Garand, then the M1A (M14), and as of late the AR15.

The M1 Garand and M1A are still legal for use for competition today, but.....they will not perform as well as the current service rifle the AR15. I do see many still shooting their M1's (Garands and 14's) in competition, and there are matches set aside just for those rifles.

But, these days....we are allowed to use a 4.5X Optic on the AR15 for competition. Iron Sighted rifles (AR15's) are still legal for use, but.....the preponderance of rifles on the line are without a doubt scoped AR15's.

Be proud of that 3 digit Distinguished Badge Sir!

R/
Chris
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:24 AM
mike from philly
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How much difference in skill do you think is required between A/S Distinguished versus CMP Distinguished?



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Old 07-21-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mike from philly View Post
How much difference in skill do you think is required between A/S Distinguished versus CMP Distinguished?



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I know this wasn't directed to me, but as one with a "250" tab and Distinguished tabs from Appleseed and also a former High Power competitor, I know that the CMP Distinguished badge is much harder to achieve than the one from Appleseed. Matter of fact, in each shoot I have shot in, since the introduction of the Distinguished
tab, I have shot a 240 or above, not too hard to do, once you've crossed that hurdle.

Lately, since the rules allow scoped AR15's, I have been shooting in High Power practice matches, shooting low Master scores, it's harder to do that, than shoot Appleseed Distinguished too. I formerly shot iron sighted M14's, until my eyesight wouldn't allow it anymore!

I'm not the prolific writer, that Navybowhunter is, I'm sure he would like to elaborate.

Also, I think it was a mistake for Appleseed to assign the title "Distinguished" to that tab, should have selected a different title for it.

Last edited by MacGhillemohr; 07-21-2019 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mike from philly View Post
How much difference in skill do you think is required between A/S Distinguished versus CMP Distinguished?



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Well, I'll attemp to answer that. Easy answer/Bottom Line Up Front:
It is MUCH more difficult and challenging than Appleseed.

To put it in perspective, I have been chasing the CMP Distinguished badge since 2016, and am not even 1/2 way there yet.

A Navy DR (Distinguished Rifleman) told me when I started my journey.. "MOA is KING"!

That means:

For Standing at 200 yards (no sling can be used), you must be shooting 4-5 MOA

For Rapid Fire at 200 and 300 yards (seated and prone), you must be shooting 2 MOA

For Slow Prone at 600 yards, 2 MOA

That will get you in the mix for points, then it depends on how many others did better than you, whether or not you get points.

These are NO SIGHTER matches, unlike AS, where you shoot a Redcoat and some squares or practice AQT's before the real one.

Excellence In Competition matches (the only matches you can earn points), are often referred to as "Don't &&* Up matches".

Your rifle must operate flawlessly, you must operate flawlessly, you must know your zero's and know how to adjust for the wind.

It is a TOUGH journey, but extremely rewarding.

Last year at the National Match, (Camp Perry) there were 700 competitors that were non-distinguished, 70 got a 10 point leg.

You have to be in the top 10%.

Interesting this came up, as this time next week I will be shooting the Presidents 100 match, the day before the National match which is next Tuesday.

I am working hard to get my "hard leg" that 10 point leg at Nationals. We shall see....the "Cut" will likely be at 480 this year out of a possible 500 points.

Hope that helps?

Come on out and shoot a match, you can find EIC matches listed on the CMP website.

R/
Chris
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Last edited by navybowhunter; 07-22-2019 at 09:28 AM.
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  #12  
Old 07-26-2019, 06:47 AM
mike from philly
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Go get them points Chris! I'll send happy x-ring bullet thoughts your way on Tuesday.
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Old 08-04-2019, 10:13 AM
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I went Distinguished Rifleman in 1995, badge #1178 with an M1A, state team requirement at the time. I also earned the Presidents 100 a couple times, once with the M1A and again with the AR 15. I earned enough points to go Distinguished with the AR 15, but you only get to go there once.

The state team I shot on won the National Championship for the first time in 1996. I was a firing member of that championship team. That state team also won the national championship a few more times later on, and placed in the top 3 numerous times. I was very fortunate to shoot with that team.

It just seems to me that it is easier now to go Distinguished with the allowance of scopes. One of my former team members still dabbles with the game, and his average scores are 796 out of 800. He is an exceptional shooter, was ranked in the top 3 civilian service rifle shooters for many years when only iron sights were legal.

Good luck with your goal, and just do the best you can.
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:42 AM
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Well....
There is a saying in HP Rifle: "Matches are won at the 200 yard line and lost at the 600 yard line".

That is a true statement. 200 yard line is tough, and a stellar performance there typically will put one in a good spot for points. But the 600 yard line one can lose those points to the wind.

That rang true for me this year at Perry. I shot poorly (mid 80s) at 200, and was not in the mix for leg points.

Cut went 478 this year.

The scopes have made it a bit easier, but....scores have also risen, which in turn raises the cut for leg points. So, it is still a tough thing to achieve.

I have one more opportunity to earn some more leg points this year at the New England Games in Vermont.

My daughter (10 yrs old) did phenomenal for her first National Match! She fell out in the middle of the pack. I foresee some leg points in her future next year. She is still learning to read the wind.

The wind was switchy this year at Perry. I ended my 600 yard line with 3.75MOA Right wind on the rifle. That is 22.5 inches RIGHT of the X ring I had to aim to score a 10!

Scopes or Irons to the side, what really matters is superb fundamental marksmanship, that is what gets the points.

We will work hard for it next year. 2020 practice starts this weekend. We have an Appleseed event we are attending at Annapolis that my daughter is looking to earn her "Appleseed Distinguished" at.

R/
Chris
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:01 AM
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I remember one year at Perry during the team match at 600 yds our coach had us put 15 MOA right on the rifle, and then aim at the target one right of ours! He knew his stuff, reading the wind, they hit on our target in the 10 ring.

Toughest that day was shooting 200 standing. Wind blew shooter so bad with gusts we went one target each side of ours. Coach told us it was the same for everybody, just keep hits on our target. Those with the least mistakes will win.

Unfortunately, one of our shooters couldn't "time" the gusts and shot two misses. He (the shooter) was very distressed over those results and we jokingly had a "suicide watch" on him that evening. lol

Ain't Perry great!
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